Raising Kids & Running a Business
Raising Kids & Running a Business
038 | Turmoil is Temporary, Street Signs are Forever with Jordis Small
In this episode, Kate sits down with Jordis Small, a brand designer, mom of three, and founder of her own creative studio. Jordis shares her winding path from fashion design to branding, her love for logos, and the realities of navigating motherhood while growing a successful design business.
They dive into how having kids reshaped Jordis' boundaries, her pricing mindset, and her entire design process. From outsourcing to setting firm workdays, Jordis gets real about what it takes to make it all work (hint: her mom is her “secret weapon”).
One of the standout moments in the episode? Jordis opens up about her city logo project for Redondo Beach—a career highlight turned public ordeal involving Facebook trolls, endless council meetings, and a surprise contest. Through it all, Jordis shares the tough lessons, the silver linings, and why she’s still proud to see her logo on the city’s street signs.
Whether you’re a fellow creative, a parent, or both — this episode is packed with real talk, business wisdom, and moments that’ll make you laugh, nod, and maybe even cringe (in solidarity).
Highlights
- Freelancing and Family Life: Jordis shares what it’s really like balancing three young kids with running a branding agency.
- Boundaries and Burnout: From late nights to letting go, Jordis opens up about how motherhood helped her build better business boundaries.
- Pro Bono? Babysit Instead: How Jordis reframes unpaid work in the context of limited time and full-on parenting.
- The Redondo Beach Saga: The dream project that nearly broke her—how a city logo project spiraled into seven council meetings, Facebook trolls, and public backlash.
- Designing for Community: What Jordis learned from working with a committee, a city council, and an entire town.
- Pricing for Sanity: Why Jordis now prices based on the number of decision-makers, not just deliverables.
- Business Babies and Letting Go: Jordis reflects on why branding is like parenting, and how designers need to let go once the project is out in the world.
Connect with Jordis Small online:
Connect with Kate Christy:
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Kate Christy: Hello, Jordis. Welcome to the pod. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm so excited that you're here and I'm so excited that our lovely friend Bri, who's also been on the pod, connected us. But before we dive into everything that we're gonna talk about today, I would really love for you to just introduce yourself, tell us who you are, what you do, what kind of kids you have, all that jazz, so people can kind of get the background information.
Jordis Small: I'm Jordis Small. I focus on brand design. So doing logos and brand development, brand strategy work. I've been doing it freelance for 11 years now, and I have three kids, two boys, five and two, and then a four month old daughter.
Kate Christy: In the thick of it. Like much more in the thick of it than I am. Oh my.
Jordis Small: Seeing you
Kate Christy: gives me light. Well, I recently interviewed someone who was, way far down the road. her kids graduated in high school. And it was like, this is wonderful. So that all these moms listening can be like, oh, I'm gonna get there someday.
Jordis Small: Yeah, you do need to listen in stages.
I listened to that episode, and then I also listened to one recently where you had on a mom of one. She had a one year old daughter and it's just so funny when you can like hear the differences and like hearing her talk I was like, oh, yeah, that was me.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm,
Jordis Small: but now I added two more to the mix and it's just a different
Thought process and way of thinking and everything just changes all the time. Mm hmm. That's the one constant. It's always going to be
Kate Christy: different. So three small children, how do you make it work? Like breakdown, your, day for us, like behind the scenes? how do you make time for work with three small children?
Jordis Small:
I have my mom and I joke that she's like my secret weapon when people are like, how do you do it? That's my favorite is when they think you watch your kids and work from home at the same time. And they're like, that's so cool. You can just like watch your kids and be home with them. I was like, no, those things don't happen at the same time.
Jordis Small: So After I had Otto, I came back to work. Of course I think we all have had the most butchered maternity leaves, if you call them that. but his was probably the worst because I wasn't sure what to expect. I was like, eh, what do I do? how does this work? And so when I went back to work, my mom started watching him, which was great.
And still is great. And I started taking Wednesdays off. And that felt really good. Cause I was like, this gives me a day in the middle of the week to be a mom. And it just felt really good. So I've kept that up, through the boys. And then now that I have three kids, I did have a hard come to Jesus moment where I was like, this is a lot.
This is mayhem. Especially since. The two littles are very close in age. So since I came back in January, like I said, okay, I'm back, but I've only been working three days a week. And it's, hard, but I think I can do it. And, I'm hopeful cause in September, then kindergarten will start and the middle one will go into preschool as well.
And I can reevaluate then. and I've also had to work to outsource. some more work and bring on other designers to help support me, so that way, kind of like, the ball continues to roll as I take those days to be a mom. But I'm sure it's like, everyone tells you how fast it goes, but for me having the third, it was kind of like, wow, this Goes even faster just because you're so busy with the other two Then it felt good to take that time and kind of prioritize my kids over my business right now But
Kate Christy: yeah, I'm adding the third one to the mix for us was
like two kids. We were doing it We were going along and the third kid was just like overdrive. Yeah, it pushes you to the brink. Yes, okay, there we go. Yeah, it shifted the dynamic so much more than going from one to two did.
Jordis Small:
Yes, I, I agree with that.
Kate Christy: Yeah, it's chaotic. Okay, so, three kids, you have been freelancing for 11 years, so you were somewhat established, right, before you started having kids. So, going into that, did you feel like, okay, I've, got the business, on solid footing, I'm good, or, kind of like break down that period of time, because negative self talk, I guess, but I'm trying to not do that is, man, I wish I had just done X, Y, and Z before I did this kind of thing, right?
Where we can kind of get caught up in, oh, wouldn't it have been nice if I had been more established? Or, wouldn't it have been nice So, I always love hearing the perspective of people who were established before bringing kids into the mix.
Jordis Small: So, for me, it was funny because I remember when, I went freelance, I had been laid off from a job that I loved, and then I was working a really crappy job part time, and then it was full time and traveling, and it was just mayhem, and my boyfriend, now husband, was like, you should just go freelance, you know, and had it in my head that I was like, I'm too young, I'm like, 25.
I should go get a job. I need agency experience or something. And then I just thought, you know, I'm going to give it a go. So I like picked up a waitressing job and tried the freelance thing and it ended up working very well. So I was like, okay, actually I think I can do this. and I had quite a few years before becoming a mom, but I was scared.
But Jesus, when I became a mom of like, how? Cause it's like, I was so into my work. one of the things I did have to learn was boundaries. And I'm glad I got to figure that out before, but it's like, when your emails don't stop and the work doesn't stop, it's up to you to like, make it stop for the weekend, and make it stop at a normal.
time so you can eat dinner and have a normal life. Whereas before kids, it was like, I would just kind of work. Yeah. So having my son was, scary, but it was also a really good thing for me. And I think with every child I've gotten better at holding tight to boundaries and valuing my time much more.
And it's actually helped me price myself more appropriately for what I should be doing. Because. I can't take on free projects or underrate myself because I'm only working three days. It's been that hard line of during those three days I need to be as profitable as I possibly can because we are a dual income house.
And I need to still bring home that amount of money. So it's been good. it's like that wobbly take off with a freelance career when you don't know what the freak you're doing and like it's rough, it's turbulence and you're kind of like, I'm glad I did that before I had a mortgage and kids.
But it's also, like I said, made me like, I'm like, shit, maybe if I would have waited, I would have gone into it, not charging 25 bucks an hour.
Kate Christy: Yeah, I think there are definitely pros and cons to both of it because, one way is if you don't have any of those responsibilities or things that are really driving you to make good, healthy decisions, right?
You can lean into that. I can work whenever I want to. I am only responsible for myself. I'm only responsible for, my apartment rent and my car payment or whatever. Right. Right. But then. the flip side of that is when you're responsible for all these other things and all these other humans, it's like, okay, I've got to create some strict rules and strict boundaries and stick to them because of this.
So it's definitely like, pros and cons both ways. But one thing that I have felt and kind of worked through that shift and it took a long time was that transition of what my time and energy is worth, After becoming a mom. And you kind of go into it thinking like, Oh, I still have the same amount of time.
I still can work, quote, unquote, nine to five. So I still can have the same output, right? And that was something that I just kept running up against that wall nonstop. It was like, why is this not working? And it's like, because you don't have the mental capacity to do it. And you don't have the emotional capacity to do it.
like, burn them in hot oil, all the time because there's so many people, especially now with three kids, like, there's so many people pulling you in all kinds of different directions. Yeah. And finally, just coming to terms with that myself with, okay, time does not equal capacity.
Like, you cannot still do what you did before, so just stop that line of thought right now because you're only setting yourself up for failure. And, you know, looking at it of, okay, like, what is my time? and energy worth and like working towards that. But also that's a very difficult thing. I would love for you to explain a little bit more to me and everyone listening how you do such a good job keeping those boundaries and thinking like I'm only working three days.
I cannot be dinking around, undercharging, over delivering, overextending myself. I still fall prey to that. But I'd love to hear your tips and tricks and how you do it.
Jordis Small: Well, I think it's been a progression. it didn't just happen. It was like, okay, once I had my son, I was still doing things for context, I started the daily logo challenge before I had my son.
And I think I made it to like day 40 maybe. And then I had him, I'm still at day 50. And he's five. So that kind of shit where it's like, you love to do it. You're like, this is cool. This is fun. And this is a good practice. And it's great. Like I encourage anybody. To do those things are so good for our creativity to have a project where you're just doing something for nothing.
But when you have kids, you're like, shit, I kind of can't waste my time.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm.
Jordis Small: And it's not, I shouldn't say wasting, but there just isn't time for it.
Kate Christy: No, I think that there's this, like, you have to create that frame of reference of, what is wasting my time and what is not, right? And doing the Daily Logo Challenge can be in that category of this is not wasting my time.
Like, this is fueling my creativity, right? Even though this is not. I think that's it, right.
Jordis Small: And probably should start to be better about giving myself a little more time to do that instead now found a way to kind of like for that into different clients and projects that I'm working on. Like, I'll have a client that they're a tiki bar, so I will kind of go off the rails and spend a little bit too much time illustrating a tiki cocktail, because it's bringing me joy but it's, I'm making an excuse.
I'm like, oh, it's for a client. It's not just for shits and giggles.
Kate Christy: feels like a two birds, one stone scenario. Yeah. it's funny. sometimes I'm like, I feel bad. I'm going to bill them for this
Jordis Small: time. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. But it felt so good. I feel like I shouldn't, but another good thing that it's funny.
I've started when people ask for projects and they're like, Oh, do you do this pro bono? And like said, pre kids, I was all about the pro bono work. I'd help out nonprofits. I loved being able to help people. Now I kind of joke when people ask for that, I go, would love to do it. I've got some time on Saturday.
You just gotta come over and watch my kids. Because it's the truth. Like, when I didn't have kids, I would do that on a Saturday. Or I would do that late night. Now that's not an option for me. So if somebody wants something for free, like, I'd trade chasing my kids around the park for sitting at my computer.
I don't mind that
Kate Christy: handoff.
Jordis Small: I love doing both of those things, but I can't do them at the same time. So, I crack up. No one's ever taken me up on that offer. That's so funny. But that also My kids aren't that bad, like, nobody wants to watch them. Or I'll say like, hey, can you cover my babysitter?
Kate Christy: But like, I'll bill you for the babysitting hours, but I'll do this for free. But that kind of puts it into context for people too, you can't knock people for trying either, what's the worst thing you're going to say? No, But it does put it into context of okay, you asking me for this means that you're taking away my time for my family and my children on a weekend.
And that's kind of like, whoa, whoops, I feel bad now, you know? Yeah,
Jordis Small: because if I had the option to have free child care five days a week from this time to that time. I don't know if I would want I enjoy those days when I have my kids. it brings me that balance and I do think that's always been my, quest in. Being a working mom was finding balance. And I actually started my design career in fashion and I left that industry so fast just because I saw what was happening and I was like, oh my God, nobody has kids because they can't because they're working these insane hours and stuff.
And it just didn't feel right for me. So yeah, take people asking for pro bono stuff, kind of, you want to do it, but you're just like, where do I fit it in?
Kate Christy: It's like, I wish I could, you could come back when all of my children are in school.
Jordis Small: Yes. Yeah. ask me later, but right now I'm in the thick of it.
yeah, we're surviving. And I was actually on the board of a nonprofit. Which I somehow got into, but I was like, this is cool, I don't mind doing this. And then it like slowly got harder and harder, then it was like when they'd ask for things, and I always say it's like the cringe test. When you're like, oh, they need.
I had to just say, I will revisit this when my kids are in school. But for right now, I just can't do it.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm. I love that. That's a good little The cringe test. Because there are those people, like those clients that you've worked with, are those people that like, the phone rings and you're immediately like, oh no, what do they want?
or the email comes through and you're like, ugh, I don't wanna open it. Right? And it's like, You're an adult. can tell me
Jordis Small: no. It's hard. I think women are bad at that.
Kate Christy: well, we want to take care of everyone, right? Like we want to make sure motherly instinct is like, I want to make sure everyone's okay.
I want to take care of everyone. Like, I don't want to disappoint anyone. I don't want to let anyone down. Yeah. Mm hmm. I got a bad case of that.
Jordis Small: So, I want to know, though, with you with time, how do you find time to do this podcast and to still host, your meetup you do and all that sort of thing?
That's a good
Kate Christy: question. I joke that I just do everything, as mediocre as I possibly can. Wait. Hahaha. and well, my kids are, the oldest one is going to be 10 this week, so 10, 7, and 3. So they are accounted for during the day. Like they go to school and then the youngest one, she's in daycare and we're getting ready to have the Is she going to go to preschool next year?
Conversation. So they all go places during the day, which allows me to have that separation between work and family. And my oldest two, bless them, are really close and they entertain each other. So it's not like they get home from school and they're like, mom, mom, mom, me, me. they're just like, they got each other.
They do their own thing. So if I need to keep working until it's time to go get mass from daycare, I can, or. Even if my husband picks her up, I have much more time to work in the day than I did, younger. so I've always sent my kids to daycare, starting at ten months for the first one, then six months, and then A year for the third one, so I kept them home and did that trying to do everything all at once, but I think right now I'm just in that phase where there is a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel in terms of that work and life separation, logistically, mentally, I'm still working on that.
But, yeah, so that's how I do the things that I do. and I don't know if this is a good advice, so, take this with a grain of salt, people. But, I have really lowered my standards and expectations around things. to give myself more, hate the term, like, give yourself grace. I don't know why, but, that's what I'm doing, I guess.
Of, like, it's okay if it's not super polished. It's okay if it's, 80 percent of the way there, 90 percent of the way there. and so I think that's helped me move forward on a lot more things. As a mom, because before kids, I was like, perfectionist, like, type A, and like, now I'm like, this version of myself, and that version of myself, I don't think they'd be friends.
She'd be like, oh my gosh, what is wrong with you? And I'd be like, ooh, you're a little tight ass. Like, but I think that's my answer.
Jordis Small: That's hilarious. I agree. funny, like, having kids. The creative type A person. it pushes you. And it
Kate Christy: challenges you. Yeah, you know what though, Interestingly, it has shaped the way that I work with people.
In a good way. Because before, it used to be,Like, I would be behind the scenes, designer behind the curtain. Doing my stuff and then like present them this super polished delivery of you know Here's the brand I would go through all the explanation of everything right now I still do that to an extent but now Approach it as like hey, this is much more of a conversation that we're having instead of me giving a presentation I will present you like half baked ideas If I think it's a good idea and we can have a conversation about it and I can try to explain to you The trajectory of this idea, and how it would work, and how it might work, but if I kind of want to get your feelers, or your thoughts and opinions on something, before I sink a whole bunch of time and energy into it to make it 100 percent polished, before I can deliver it, that's one thing that I've Stopped doing because of the lack of time and capacity as a mom too.
And that's opened up this creative play space with my clients. And I'll get on a Zoom call with them, share my screen and be like, Let's work on this together. Like what do you think about this? What do you think about this? And then they'll like throw in their ideas. And so it's made it a much more fluid, flexible container to work with people.
Which has been fun. And before that was like something that if, we all joke like, we don't want people designing over our shoulder or like watching us do stuff. But now I'm just like. Come on, everyone, get a front row seat.
Jordis Small: Let's work through this. I love that you say that, because had a very similar experience, where it used to think, too, people would say, oh, if you want to charge top dollar, you've got to show the logo in all these different applications, and really spell it to the clients, which I agree, they do need to see some, cool stuff that really gets people jazzed.
Like, us as creatives can picture a logo and know what's going to work where. Normal people don't always have that ability. But the opening, I call it open the kimono, and I've done it with pretty much all my brand clients now, because sometimes People will have something in their head, and you know it's a bad idea, but they don't, and they really want to see it, and in versus, let me do this fancy presentation, and then let you mull it over, And then I'm gonna get this lengthy ass email from you, which, cringe test, I'm gonna be Cringing my way through, going, God, ugh, what do they want?
Like, let's get on the screen share. Let me show you my screen. I'm going to show you, my messy ass art board with shit everywhere. And then you can tell me, like, hey, I want to turn that heart upside down. And I'm going to say, it's going to look like a butt. But instead of saying that, I will turn it upside down and let them say, oh wow, that looks like a butt.
Let's not do that. And then you're like, crisis averted.
Kate Christy: Yeah, I think that, you know, there is that validity to, you're paying. Top dollar for this service from a creative professional who's put in the time, energy, upskilling. but I also think that it's letting them in on it that they gain this.
broader awareness of what it is that we do, I think that they'll be like, Oh, I get why I'm paying this person. And you're way
Jordis Small: more, easy to get a yes. Yeah. Like when they feel involved in the process and they have their input heard and seen, who cares? Let them feel like they had a hand in designing their logo.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm.
Jordis Small: They should. It's theirs. I think
Kate Christy: that's like somewhat of a controversial opinion to have, but I welcome ideas and input from my clients, but I do work with a lot of people who are like, I'm just starting this business. I am the face of this business. so it is personal, right? A lot more businesses starting this day have this very personal element to them.
And I'm like, this has to represent you because, you are the face of the business. And having their input and having their participation in it, I think, does it yield the absolutely, perfectly positioned, strategically created logo? Maybe not, but It gets pretty damn close, and it also, they're walking away with the pride that they participated in it.
They're happy about it, and they're out in the world just like, sharing it with everyone. So I think that's just a net positive.
Jordis Small: Totally. I feel like as designers, it's our job to know the principles of I know what makes a good logo. So if somebody comes in and says I've got this picture of my grandma.
I want this colored picture of my grandma in the logo. I'm going to have to explain to them, we can use her within the brand. She might not be the logo. Here's why. Let me show you KFC and kind of break it down for you. But you want them to feel incorporated in it. And at the end of the day, it's one project of many that I have in my book.
It is there. It is their thing, and they have to look at it every day, so you want them to feel happy about it. I feel like sometimes too, designers get so caught up in their own ego of like, Oh, it shouldn't be like this, and I'm gonna do this. Then before you know it, that person will take that logo, and then maybe three years later, they've got some other logo, and it might be a really worse off thing because they found someone who would listen to what they wanted and go that way.
And it's like, that's a bummer. Like when you see that, who then went rogue kind of.
Kate Christy: you're opening an old wound for me right now. I, sorry. No, but it's so funny that it's still sticking with me. It was like years ago when I worked as an in house print designer and we had a client who was opening like a salad bar type restaurant or that's like in between the fast food and like the restaurant.
I don't know what you call those kind of restaurants. A salad bar a la, like, Chipotle, and you probably have places like that in California. I think they're called, like, Grab and Go. Okay, I'm like, this, fancy ish salad bar. Counter service. Sure, there we go. And we were working on the logo so that we could then create menus for them.
And I don't really understand what happened in the process, but she could not articulate her desires. And then she took it elsewhere, and someone else created, maybe, two or three iterations down the line of that logo. And I was so butthurt about the experience, because I'm like, you could have just told me that's what you wanted.
Yeah. And we could have gotten there, but you were like, oh, yeah, that's great. Perfect. Thank you. Bye. And I hate when people do that.
Jordis Small: But that's where I think having these unpolished screen shares. with clients solves for that problem when it's like I know in one of your past episodes, you've talked about how we kind of get told this is how you do it.
this is how you sell brand strategy. This is how you design a logo. This is the way it works. And it's like, for everyone, you've got to find that groove of what works for you and modify it. And it's like, I've tweaked my process so many times since I've started doing this. And now I do feel like I found that sweet spot where it's like.
I do workshops in the beginning with the client where it kind of starts to feel like therapy and I take them through a whole deck and get questions and it's intense, but because we do that, once we get to the creative, they feel so much more comfortable with me and my process and knowing what the vision is that when I'm doing creative work, I'm getting yeses and oh, I love that.
That's awesome. Versus the pushback. And sometimes what I found too, when you present designs and you show, okay, I'm gonna show you a few different colorways, you and I speak that language of colorways and mm-hmm . We know how easy it is to change a color. Clients do not. And I actually had a few times getting pushback.
We're like, Ugh, I hate concept one. It's awful. And I'm like, that's my favorite. Can you tell me why you don't like it? They're like, oh, I just hate the color orange. Mm hmm. And you're like, you don't hate concept one, you hate that it's orange. Let's talk about the color and fix that. Whereas when you do a screen share, you can just ask that right there on the spot and not get email pushback and.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Cringy
Jordis Small: emails.
Kate Christy: It's like, well, what's not working for you? And then you can beep bop boop, make it blue. Mm hmm. And I think you having that really meaty upfront process too. Opens that runway for people to be like, okay, I have this creative partner in this process. she's a human, she's getting real with me.
We're having a conversation. And so then when it does get to that creative part of the process, they're not going to be like, Oh, yeah, fine. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Yeah. Like, they're like, absolutely. I'm going to run away now. I don't like it. I have the confidence to, speak my piece about everything.
Yeah. So, I don't know. And I think that's something that, definitely did like drive me to work that into my process. Like even all these years later of I never want a client to feel like they cannot come to me and say, I don't like this. Or they can't say their feelings about what we're working on together to me, like, I don't know, so I think just, yeah, opening that runway as much as I can is definitely, like, front and center in my process.
But also, showing the half baked ideas, like, that definitely stems from, okay, I think this is a good idea, I think they might like it. But before I drive myself silly and sink like eight hours into this thing, let me get them to cosign on it because time is like king over here.
Jordis Small: Totally. And I think that's having kids where you're just like there's not extra time for just messing around and running in that.
You've learned that you're like, I'm going to shoot myself in the foot if I think that this is the Holy Grail to their brand and they hate it. I will have just wasted everyone's time. And I think what's interesting, I'm not sure if you feel this way, but especially after having the third child, there's been a major shift in my life where time is way more important to me than.
The dollar right now, and I've always been a hustler. I've been one of those people that Pricing was really hard for me to figure out freelance because I have such a weird relationship with money It was hard for me to value myself to ask for enough money. I'm notoriously like a money hoarder but I crack up now i'm just at this stage where i'm like i'd rather have the time.
I want to save people's time more than anything
Kate Christy: and
Jordis Small: in my world, it's like oh, if I need a babysitter, I'm hiring the babysitter because it doesn't matter, whereas before it was like, ugh,
Kate Christy: I gotta do
Jordis Small: this. Yeah.
Kate Christy: Yeah. I think that's a very healthy outlook, Jordice.
Jordis Small: I hope so.
Okay. I'm gonna go broke just
Kate Christy: paying the babysitter all the time, because I'm like, don't help me. One day you'll get a client to pick you up on it, though. They'll be like, we'll come watch your kids so you can do our stuff. Like I said, even pay the sitter, it's cool. okay. Okay. So. In that regard, have you had any experiences, clients, projects that have shaped kind of how you do things now, like me fussing about the salad logo?
have there been experiences where you're like, whoa, this has totally altered, reshaped my perception about how I'm going to do business?
Jordis Small: Yeah, there's not one particular that sticks out, but I've had those experiences. And I think at this point in my career, the thing on my side is that I can now say to clients when I do get pushed back on, like, we all get those emails, Oh, no, I just need a logo.
I can then articulate like why I don't do just a logo. And There's this time where you can kind of like bullshit it, but now I can say with hard confidence why that doesn't work, because I've had so many of those experiences that I'm like, it just doesn't work.
Jordis Small: It doesn't serve anybody. It's wasting everybody's time and money. And I'm going to give you this logo, and it's not going to do what it's meant to do. It's built on shaky ground. And It's stupid. It's like, are we even doing this? Let's do it right, let's get it done, and set you up for success. And being able to now articulate that with 100 percent confidence, because I've seen the cases, I've seen the successes, and I've seen the failures.
and actually one thing I do want to talk about is my Redondo Beach project. That one was interesting. And for everyone else, I did a city logo, which started out as a dream project of mine and quickly went south, partially because I shouldn't say it went south because it ended up. I'm to working with a city versus a client, so who's going to be acting as the client and I asked the city council and they said, Oh, we'll put together a committee.
Jordis Small: So I said, Great. You guys each elect one person. There's five districts. So each council member elected someone to sit in the car with me as we went on this logo design journey. And I thought, that's going to be how I'm going to get this project through. I'm going to get a yes. And on top of that, I said, okay, let's make sure we're including the community as best as we can with this tiny budget that we have.
Let's do some polls and surveys and make sure that everyone feels like they're a part of it. I thought that was going to be it and I had to put together a keynote that I would present at this council meeting and I walked everyone through the process of how we got there. And it was met with such negativity from the community, from people who had just seen it for the first time and their reactions were like, this is horrible.
This design is awful. That looks like baby poop, yellow, and you're cringing because you're just like, I can change the yellow. That's easy peasy. But I can't change the yellow just because Rick in the third row says change the yellow. Oh my gosh,
Kate Christy: you had to present to an open meeting to the public.
Holy shit. Oh my gosh, that is
Jordis Small: like Multiple
Kate Christy: times. Gross. Yes. Oh my gosh, that's like the equivalent of here, now go share this with every single person who has no context of
Jordis Small: what we're working
Kate Christy: on. And Facebook groups.
Jordis Small:
this experience showed me that I do not want to be famous.
Jordis Small: Ever. I don't even want to be likedesigner famous because the trolly things that people say and the mean comments. I wanted to, like, yell on Facebook and just be like, Hi everyone, I'm Jorda Small, I'm a real person, I live in your community, I'm a mom, I did this project for you, please don't rip me to shreds.
Kate Christy: Oh my gosh, okay, so you're presenting this first round to everyone and their brother in the community, and then what?
Jordis Small: so, get this, I do my keynote. Cause first there'd been chatter. I think they like, shared it somewhere where some people had seen it. So some people came in hot with their questions.
Oh, gosh. Okay. And, off, for context, this project, I was pregnant with my second son, when I got the RFP, did not tell them I was pregnant because I didn't want that to be a deciding factor in who they go with. And then I got noticed that they wanted to go with me, a week before my due date, so I'm like, okay.
First council meeting I go to, with a six day old baby. I had my mom driving around in the car, and I just had to, introduce myself. And one red flag at that meeting was some woman stood up and she goes, I think we need to have this, this, and this. She wanted a website dedicated to this process. she wanted a lot.
And luckily there was a graphic designer on the city council at the time. And he spoke up and he just said, Okay, well, for the 15k budget that we have, you're asking for 150, 000 worth of work to execute this project. So let's get realistic there. And I was like, phew, okay. Funny enough, that woman ended up being one of my committee members.
She was wonderful. she was good on there, but she was one who was like, it should be a dolphin. And then I do a dolphin and she's like, No Dolphin, and you're like, told you, but that was like the, start of it. So I'm kind of like, okay, let's do this. Great. I do my little keynote and the meeting I presented it at.
I didn't go on till 11 o'clock at night. And my husband was with me, and by then I was so tired, I was going in the bathroom power posing, trying to pump myself up for this, And you're six, days postpartum. No, no, sorry, this was the second council meeting when I like, presented the work.
Six month old baby at this point. Okay, I'm like, oh my god. The first one, I was like a run in, and I'm like, hi everyone, nice to meet you, can't wait to do this project. Gotta go!
Kate Christy: I can relate to that. How do
Jordis Small: you say no?
Kate Christy: Yeah, well, I'm assuming, okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're like this is one of THE projects, this is the portfolio powerhouse this is the thing that's gonna put me on the map kind of thing, Like you're doing this project. I have a verysimilar story like postpartum with my third child But continue we'll get to that later.
Jordis Small: I want to hear it But yeah, this was my holy grail of a project this was the no freaking way They chose me like I'm a hometown girl, and I love my community And then to do a city logo just felt like, The tippy top. Yeah, yeah, I got this. I'm, stoked. So I wasn't gonna let anything get in the way, even a baby.
I'm like, people have babies all the time. whatever. But luckily he was six months old by the time I had to go present, to the public.
Kate Christy: Mm
Jordis Small: And that one was, Interesting because the council gave me a standing ovation. They loved it. So I'm like, okay cool. Woohoo But they decided that there was too much naysayers that they needed more education around the process.
So they asked me to go present this meeting that this keynote that I did at one of each of their district meetings. So I had to go do five other meetings to present at, which those meetings, like some were great. Some people were awesome. And I left feeling really good. And there were some that I left and cried because I was that was awful.
those people were angry and One meeting like one guy stood up and was like I'm not sending her kids through college. This is stupid Why are we spending money on this? to me and I'm just like, I don't know, bro Oh my god, the city reached out to me I don't know who or how but I'm thankful they did But I got the RFP so someone in their camp said let's get a new logo.
Not me Oh, it was really lame, nothing prepares you for
Kate Christy: Well, that's like the equivalent of, the concept of, don't meet your heroes, Where it's like, you're super jazzed about it, and then you walk away and be like, Oh, man, that person was a dick, right?
Like, I had them, like, up on this pedestal, but, like, they're not really that cool. They were, like, mean to me or whatever. Not saying that's the case for, all circumstances, but you have this, idea in your head of, Oh, man, this is the project. this is the tippy top, this is gonna put me on the map, this is the gold standard for what I've been working towards, this whole time as a designer, and then you get there and you're like, Oh, not what I expected.
Yeah,
Jordis Small: and it was like comical, the things that people were saying, it was a lot of like, Oh, we need a surfer in the logo. We need to show hope. We need to show diversity. We need to show inclusion. everybody wanted all the things in the logo. And it was all these things that us as designers know cannot be in a logo.
Mm hmm. You're like, y'all are talking about a mural. Exactly. I said that. I was like, that sounds like a wonderful mural that they should do on the side of a library.
Kate Christy: It
Jordis Small: has its place in there, but this is not it. And I, thought I did a wonderful job in my keynote of articulating, what makes a good logo and why it matters and all those good touch points.
But then I also learned that people don't listen.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm.
Jordis Small: That people show up and they have their question in their head. They're, locked and loaded. They have earmuffs on the entire time until they get to raise their hand and, state their thing, and just frustrating,Oh my gosh.
That is absolutely wild. And then cut to like after doing five meetings, so this took another six months. My son's a year by that point. back to the council meeting, and they decided that they couldn't do a vote then, and they go, you know, let's do a contest. We're going to open this up to the public and do a design contest, which that was like a dagger in my heart at that point because I had just felt like I had, Climbed already got this ready to run eager beaver got my keynote.
I'm like, okay campaign trail. Here we go Then I'm like, okay, let's vote, and then to hear a contest I just felt like someone pushed me off the mountain. I just climbed up on top of that I'm like, you know, if you wanted to do a contest you probably should have done a contest A year ago?
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And maybe gotten everyone's ideas and then hired a designer to say, Hey, this was the contest winner, but this was done by, a school kid or something. Can you take this concept and turn it into a cool logo? That would have been great. I would have been happy to do that. But now I had felt like I had literally opened my kimono once again, but I had opened it to the entire community.
I had shown everyone, concepts, processes, why things were. So, then, when they do this contest, of course, there's quite a few logos in there that I'm like, Oh, wonderful, wonderful, that person took my design and they changed the color yellow. Yeah, because it
Kate Christy: was poo poo. Peepee yellow.
Jordis Small: They got sunshine yellow.
And they're like, you know, what Stellan Design did was great, but I heard the community didn't like the yellow. So I changed the yellow. And then you're like trying to be. humble about it, but you want to just be like, don't steal my design. And then you're not going to get to take the credit.
it was hard.
Kate Christy: I feel so bad that I'm butthurt about my stupid salad logo now at this.
Jordis Small: No, they all hurt. They all hurt. It hurts with design. I joke that like, it's funny when, you're young and single and dating and like. A man can mess with your emotions, a date, not calling you back.
But now in, our professional career, it's like, getting bad and shitty feedback on a logo can put you in that same kind of bummed out state.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm.
Jordis Small: that's where this project took me and I kind of got mad at some points because it was like, interfering with my family life when I was so bummed out after some of these council meetings.
That it was like, I just wanted to talk it out on the phone with a friend and then I'm in the backyard half watching my kids, half bitching about council members to anyone who would listen because I needed that,
Kate Christy: Yeah, well, and this is the first full year of your second child's life,
the headspace that you're in in that moment of time is so tumultuous, too, you know? Like, there's so much changing so quickly. And then you still have the other kid, right? You're still going through those phases that that kid's going through and that is absolutely wild. Okay, please tell us this story has a happy end.
Jordis Small: It does. Thank God it does. So one of the things that people didn't like about my logo that I did, was they said it looked like a shark fin. It was supposed to be a sail like over the sun. So I tweaked it and did a two triangle instead of one triangle thing and made it less sharky apparently and I changed the yellow color first so pissed at this contest.
I was like, I'm not freaking entering this contest. This is stupid. Stupid. I'm not doing it. But then I was like, took some time, cooled it down, and I was like, No, I'm gonna enter this one in this contest and see. And that one passed and won the design contest which scared me because in this time frame of this project, the mayor had passed away.
Kate Christy: Oh no.
Jordis Small: So they had a new mayor who was not so much a fan of the new proposed logo. And he had like, not been there, on the journey. And then my contact at the city, she tells, informs me like the night of the meeting, she goes, here's the thing. It's there's five council members. They have to get this vote, whatever.
But if it's a three to two vote, the mayor can step in and sway the vote one way or another. So I was just sick to my stomach. this is still in. limbo and I, feel like when they said they're like, ended up getting a four out of five vote. There was one council member who was still not on board with it, but just getting there, like when they said it, I almost didn't believe them.
I had built it up. see something in your head and you're like, this is going to be great. This is my aha, my, career builder, my project, my thing. This is the thing that me as a mom, I want to be able to show my kids like your mom did that. Isn't that cool? And I felt that way from the beginning.
And then so much through the journey was like, shit, Jordi, maybe this doesn't end like that. Maybe this never sees the light of day.
Kate Christy: Maybe this
Jordis Small: is just a really shitty lesson that you need to learn and, be okay with it. but by then I had just poured so much extra into it. Like, I want to just touch base on, the scope of work.
When I put out my proposal and what I included in my proposal was fair. Was on point for, like, The work rendered and what I did. Where it went so far off script was nobody told me that I needed to attend council meetings, which can last hours, prepare a keynote, and then present that keynote seven different times.
Yeah, because I also made a video. I made like a YouTube that they could share out to the community. it was just all this extracurricular that was not included at all. And then on top of that, just like the emotional toll of it. Looking back, I'm like, I should have bid like at least 60k on this project.
And I didn't. And even council members, kind of like, it was nice to hear them say that you were totally underpaid on this. You feel a little validated, but then you're also like, thanks. Like, well, it's
Kate Christy: nice to hear, but I prefer the money. Yeah.
Jordis Small: Like, kind of raising a family here and this did take a lot of, like, extra shit.
But now, and thank God, for, like, business coaches and, things like that. Cause I, have a coach and she helped me kind of realize that the amount. That I learned in working with a city like that can be equated to if you're working with a big company So it's like if you're gonna do some work for coca cola, you got to be prepared to there's not one person.
That's your point of contact. You're having to appease board members and so many cooks in the kitchen and it's an experience that you've learned that and I laugh now, I'm like, yeah, I've got now two price points for my project. There's one if it's one person, an entrepreneur, and then there's another if you've got five or six decision makers in the company.
Kate Christy: I think that's like a super important tidbit to pull out because I was just having a conversation yesterday with some other designers around this concept of value based pricing. And, not putting your price, we were talking about like putting pricing out on your website and things like that, and that's how the conversation started, but about this pricing, the project, not based solely on the deliverables and, Your skill level that you're bringing to the table, but who the business actually is, right?
Like you price something for a mom and pop different than you price for Coca Cola. And I think the point that you're hitting on is it's not I'm charging them more money because they have more money and they're a bigger name. It's I'm charging them more money because I have to go through multiple channels.
I have to go through multiple rounds in addition to This process that I would with a mom and pop, business. And I think that's super important because no one says that out loud, It's like, oh, don't put your pricing like you're leaving money on the table. there's truth in that, but it's like, you're not just pricing higher for people who can pay higher, you're pricing higher because you're putting so much more energy into getting it across the finish line.
Jordis Small: Yeah.
Kate Christy: And I want to
Jordis Small: be transparent with that, where it's like, I've gone through, so many iterations of my branding, how I sell it, how I package it, all that good stuff. Thank God now I'm at a point where I have one thing. And it's like, this is what I do.
before had those phases where I'm like, there's startup, and the this, and the that, and Three or four different tiers of it now. It's like this is me. This is my process This is how I'm gonna do this for you And again, if it's me and the business owner working together, it's this if you have 25 stores and board members and five people that are gonna be in that room We need to account for the extra time the extra revisions but still that scope of work that I send is exactly the same but I just know that Zoom meetings with five people take a whole lot longer than one.
Kate Christy: Yeah, I've recently, I recently had an experience where we're working on a project and it is a volunteer organization. And we're getting through the main person and then we're like 70, 80 percent of the way done. They're like, okay, now we need to bring everyone else in. And I'm like, Oh,
Jordis Small: What? I'm sorry, what?
That's how I felt with this, where I was like, I thought getting the okay from my five committee members, that was going to be the easy getting a yes. And then it wasn't. It was like, oh, wait, now we got to get the community on board. Which no one told me about. But, twofold, I will say when it comes to pricing, I think about this a lot.
Because again, like I said, I got this weird relationship with money, where no one likes to feel like you left money on the table. And with my Redondo Beach thing, I was feeling like I was underpaid a lot. Had I priced more, I don't know if they would have gone with me. And you would have had this wonderful experience.
But I will tell you, my lie at the end of the tunnel, it was nothing cooler than seeing like a logo you did on a street sign. Yeah. it's on street signs. And I'm like, even one council member, he messaged me, so funny. He goes, turmoil's temporary, street signs are forever. It's true. I get that feeling, that joy.
So the end it was worth it. And on top of that, learning those lessons with pricing and valuing yourself as a designer, it's made it an easy thing where I'm like, I'm not scared anymore of these numbers that before I always felt like if I sent out something, a proposal that's expensive, I found myself finding things that I needed to put in there to bulk it up, to make it seem more valuable.
And that's not the case.
Kate Christy: yeah, I think that, going through an experience and looking back on it and being like, okay, here are the lessons in that is such a valuable thing and a valuable mindset to have too. And that's how I try to view things like those hard, sticky situations as a business owner.
Because the alternative is. get yourself in a similar situation and you're like, wait a minute, why am I back here again? Yeah. because what was
Jordis Small: really interesting was after the project was finally approved, I got an RFP for another local city, , and I had like PTSD at that point.
But on top of that I was kind of laughing 'cause I was like, they have no idea. They have no idea how to run this project. 'cause the RFP was like, we would like 15 options. And this many rounds of revisions, and the person who I was communicating with, I was kind of asking, okay, well, why does the city want a new logo?
Because you all know we need to get clear on why are we doing this? Have the community members approved this decision yet, y'all? Do people want it? If not, if this is just someone in the office saying we should do this, this is going to be another bad experience. And I don't think they've even like, gone forth with the effort, but at least now I was like, I could go into a meeting with a city and state with confidence, like, this is why this works, this is what you're up against, and this is how this will go.
Kate Christy: Yeah, you would be a really great asset to that project, having gone through and been like, okay. Here's the deal, y'all. This is how this goes. Here's how we're
Jordis Small: gonna do this. And on top of that, you know what's really sad with that project? That whole term, like, oh, a Karen. don't be such a Karen.
I was always like, that's kind of rude, And then now I'm like, oh no, Karens are real.
Kate Christy: You've come into contact with them.
Jordis Small: Lots
Kate Christy: of them. Oh, no. Oh, that is wild. That's absolutely wild. I was like sweating listening to that story. but you know what the big takeaway from all that is? Is you went through all that process, and you still bested everyone in the contest.
So, everyone.
Jordis Small: I was sweating. I to my stomach we had to wait till they publish the agenda or whatever for the, that council meeting. I had to go through all the contest entries and see, and I was like sick to my stomach as I was doing it. Cause I was like, how am I going to take this?
how am I going to, digest this? first off, are there any in there that have legs? and there were some good ones.
Jordis Small: You know, it wasn't all bad, but it was interesting, and was a ton of entries. I don't want to sound cocky as a designer, but there were not many that were done by another professional designer that specializes in logos.
And I think that's what hit hard for me, was everyone talks about niching, I don't have a niche, I don't think, in like, industries that I work with, but I am very, very passionate about creating simple timeless logo marks that work. I'm so practical that I just love something that works like when it's a little favicon and I love it when it works on the side of a building.
I don't like a lot of color, so I had this gem that I was like, this is going to serve the city so well. this is perfect. It can work on a policeman's pin. It can work in a fire. I had thought of all the use case scenarios. And then it's like in the contest, nobody's thinking of that.
So they're putting everything in there, that. Multiple colors and not showing how it works in a one color, then they're just doing stuff that, people do that they think is a logo when it's not. It's like, well, when people don't understand the difference between a t shirt graphic and a logo.
It was a lot of that and I just was like, I'm going to be very upset if the city chooses one of these that looks cool on the back of a t shirt because it looks cool on the back of a t shirt.
Kate Christy: Yeah. you're kind of put in this sticky situation where you're like, okay, I have thought of all of these variables.
this is my job. this is what I'm trained in doing. And I'm thinking about this. I'm thinking about future proofing this whole thing for you all. but you kind of have to educate people on that. You have to explain that. But then, you're not dealing with people who have that awareness, right?
Kate Christy: Like, you're dealing with people in the community just coming in, giving in their two cents, right? You're dealing with people who see something, and it's like that shiny object, so then I'm like, oh, that'd be a sick t shirt, like, let's pick that one, Without that forethought of, oh, wait, we've made the t shirts, okay, worked on the sign, but now we need Something else and then they have to go back to the drawing board or go figure out another solution That's gonna work long term.
And yeah, I think that's one of the trickier parts of type of work we do too, is that education component of is why we're doing this, this is why this works, this is how much thought and energy I've put into this thing that I'm showing you right now, you know, without coming across of like, I'm right, you're wrong, get in line.
Jordis Small: It was a whole lot of lessons I felt like a teacher. So people are like, how do you articulate this? Where, again, like, what I've learned with clients, it's like when the client comes to the thing, they're way more on board with it. So you're just kind of thinking like, how do I get. An entire community, on board with this.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm.
Jordis Small:
it was hard. And it was just, forever now, it's taught me where it's like when people say, how long does it take you to design a logo? Like I said, again, for context, I was pregnant when I got the RFP. I had my third child when this logo has started to see the light of day and be out in the community.
Jordis Small: So my new response is now it can take two humans or it can take two days. Like pick and choose.
Kate Christy: Oh my gosh. That's absolutely wild. Huh? what a roller coaster.
Jordis Small:
caution people, like do it. It's cool. It's like. we've all seen those projects. It's like every designer has those things where you're like, God, that'd be a dream to do that.
Jordis Small: Like an Olympic logo, so cool. But I just want people to also be aware and go into those situations knowing that the outcomes could be great and they could be awful.
Kate Christy: This is something like in parenting too is really monitoring how I set expectations as a designer, as a parent, like across the board, right?
And coming into something like that, especially like your immediate thought is, Oh man, this is the dream. This is going to be so amazing, right? Like you're excited and there's nothing wrong with that. That's absolutely glorious. Right. But coming into it with. I'm gonna do this thing, and it's gonna be worth it, but a whole bunch of it is gonna be grueling.
And like kind of setting yourself up for in the, like I joke about lowering my standards, right? Like earlier I was talking about oh, being okay with doing things mediocre. But I think that can position you in a much better headspace going into something, Of like, okay. This is going to be really cool, but I need to brace myself because I am going to have to go through a lot more rigorous, like, review and iteration process than before, and so glad that you shared this story with us, too, because, I think that, well, as designers, too, we don't want to talk shit about projects or clients or anything like that, that's not what we're doing at all, but you kind of want to air a little bit of the dirty laundry because now people know that when they're going into, like a city type project, it's like, let me add a really big buffer in here for time commitments and extra rounds of revisions and things like that.
And I think just kind of being really generous with, extra time, generous with it's going to be a little bit more grinding than I'm used to. Or it's going to be. A little bit more difficult in terms of the conversations that I'm having. that light at the end of the tunnel can still be a sweet, you're kind of beating yourself up a little bit less throughout the process.
Jordis Small: I think it's a lot of, too, the unknown and with parenting. And, I feel like having children is one of those times where it is such a lesson in, you can't control things. And I don't know, with fertility and all that fun stuff, it was like we had our first son.
Easy we've had some miscarriages along the way and it took us like an extra year of trying to have my second son. And that lesson was like, you know when you're like, want to be a mom, and I can see my kids, and I've always said like, oh, I can see my three kids, this is it. Then, you know, you have a miscarriage and you're like, shit, maybe that's not it.
That's what this project felt like, where it was those moments of like, maybe I'm not gonna see my logo on a street sign. maybe I'm gonna have one kid. I don't know and just having to like overcome those thoughts of what you see and feel and like just let go and respect. I hope but we'll see
Kate Christy: that's definitely a hard thing and like you said, that thought of what could be, what might be right.
And coming to terms with that. And I think a lot of the work that we do as designers, like there is a fair bit of ego involved, no way you slice it. I think it's because we care, we are super passionate about what we're doing and we want that best end result for our clients.
We want whatever we're working on to have legs You're like, you're trying to cut the legs out from under me. Stop. Yes.
Jordis Small: and I'm like, I probably shouldn't really be comparing this project childbearing, but But for me, it did feel that heavy of a thing.
I was over the moon when it got accepted and then, but thankful it all came out. But I also wanted to say, in general, I was talking with an interior design friend of mine, about a project we worked on recently together. I have this analogy that when you're building a brand with a client, you're making a baby.
Kate Christy: Like you're
Jordis Small: making a, business baby. And then us as designers, when we're done with it, we hand it off to the business owner and say like, here's your child, go raise it. And you hope and pray that they raise it right.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm.
Jordis Small: And you're like, that's all I can do.
Kate Christy: Also much having a child, you're like, I've done my part.
I've tried to be the positive influence, but they're going to be their own person someday and I have to be okay with it. That's like, Gotta go. Bye. That's my favorite thing when people do a lot of website work too. They're like, how do you handle when people go in there and mess stuff up?
I say, I just stopped looking at the website.
Jordis Small:
I'm sure you've been there, but you link like projects on your website to their websites. And then when you go there one day and it's something else.
Kate Christy: Or
Jordis Small: they've done something and you're just like, and I'm going to take that one off now.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm. Yeah, I'll put a little archive beside that, if this project was sunset. No, in all honesty though, like they're their own children. they're their own person, right? they can do that. That's okay. We can't
Jordis Small: control it as much as we type A's want to correct.
Yes. Same thing with third. Yeah, they do .
Kate Christy: okay. Real quick before we wrap up, I wanted to share my, story with you about my postpartum. There we go. right before I went to labor with my third child, I got an email from someone. And they were like, hey, so and so referred us, to you.
And I was like, who? And then I got on a call with them and they're like, yeah, do you know, Rob such and such? And I was like, who? And they, said who it was and it was the, producer on Armchair Expert. Do you know who I'm talking about? Mm hmm. So he apparently had given my name to this person to call me to ask about a website.
I have never met this person. I don't know how this happened, but I'm like, yeah, I know Rob, cause I listened to the podcast that he produces. And so then it turns out that it's, someone in that circle and they were trying to put a website together for, Quitter's which Julie Bowen was the host of.
so I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is it, y'all. I'm working with famous people. This sounds so silly saying it so loud now. But anyways, so I have this, consultation call with them. And I'm like, wicked pregnant. any day now it's gonna happen. I was like, I'm not gonna say anything. And I didn't, like I did not say anything.
We don't, because
Jordis Small: you do know if you go into a job interview and you tell them that you're pregnant, they are probably not going to hire you. And I was like, oh
Kate Christy: my gosh. yeah, and then so we go through like the whole, proposal process like, okay, we're ready to move forward. And I was like, sick.
And then I like go into labor and I have it I'm like, oh my gosh, okay. And so then they're reaching out about booking a discovery session. And I'm literally in the hospital. I had the worst labor. Delivery I've ever had of all my children and I'm like in there emailing them back Not even entirely sure that the hospital is going to Discharge me like yeah, I can totally meet tomorrow Did you?
I did.
Jordis Small: Did you go home? You were home? I did get,
Kate Christy: yeah, because then the jig would have been up if they're like, where are you? I'm like, I'm actually in the hospital. Here's my baby.
Jordis Small: No. So you just put your camera off and you just sit. Oh my gosh. Like, what's that beeping? Oh, it's just my, uh, heart rate monitor.
The monitor.
Kate Christy: yeah. So I get home and I can barely. I, for context, like, think I'm going to do a full blown, like Maz's birth story, but I had a hysterectomy, emergency C section, like all kinds of crazy shit went down. So. my husband is helping me up the stairs, and he's like, this is so fucked up, this is so fucked up, I'm just like, I'm so sorry, I don't know what to do, all just happens so fast, it's happening, there's nothing we can do about it, okay, just go with it, and so I'm like, hobbling up the stairs to my office, I have a Foley catheter in, because of complications, and so I'm sitting down, I'm having this meeting, I'm like, Okay, yeah, like totally we're gonna do this.
Oh my god, and I'm getting off this meeting I'm like, what are you doing? But it was that instance of this job's gonna put me on the map. Did you do it? I did it. It's out there It lives in the world However, I don't think the podcast is happening anymore, but the website is still out there And I did that see it and I had a zoom meeting with Julie Bowen from modern family And, That's pretty cool.
Not everyone knows my name, so, what I thought would happen, Didn't.
Jordis Small: Oh, but like, But you did it. Something cool is gonna come of that. I'm a big believer in, those things, you can't always see it as a freelancer, but it's like, those things it'll come back.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Well,after some detective work, I think what happened was our lovely friends, the Hood sisters, Put me in a hat for oh, here's some people who I know who do a good job in the web field.
So I think that's how my name got in this. So cool. Yeah, and I was like, oh sweet. but yeah, so I did that website and I'm proud of it. I love it. But it was so humbling, I guess, right? Of like, this is that golden, shiny project. I'm so excited to have it. And I'm going to be somebody after this project.
As shitty as it is, like, I don't
Jordis Small: condone us doing what we do. but would you be comfortable like saying no to it? And then letting that be maybe like the one that got away? that might haunt you. No, I
Kate Christy: mean, looking back on it, I don't regret my behavior. Whatsoever. I don't condone my behavior either.
Jordis Small: Exactly.
Kate Christy: Don't tell other pregnant women,
Jordis Small: like,
Kate Christy: take the budget, girl. you do not schedule meetings from a hospital bed. Sorry.
Jordis Small: No, but I also, when I had my first, again, that maternity leave was real, like, I didn't know what that was going to be. I worked through my labor. with a client that is still with me today.
They're a wonderful retainer client that makes up a good chunk of my income and helps me support my family. So I don't regret this at all, but I was like on the toilet having contractions. Trying to get this done for her because I was afraid I was going to have a story like yours where like, Oh my God, once I go to the hospital, what happens if I have an emergency seat section?
I can't get this done for them. And they were a new client at the time. I didn't want to like rock the boat. I just wanted to muscle through it. And again, probably not the safest things, but I got that project done and they've been with me. through having more children and they still, are there.
But it was that weird feeling of like, I thought I was gonna die. Not that I was gonna die, but I felt like once I had the baby, lights go out and I'm off the grid for a
Kate Christy: while.
Jordis Small: Mm
Kate Christy: hmm. You're like, if I don't give them this link to their files, they're never gonna get it.
Jordis Small: Yeah! I'm, leaving them up Schitt's Creek.
I can't do that. I gotta get this done,
Kate Christy: I really love what you said about, creating your own, don't, I don't remember how you put it, but doing something in the moment, you're like, what am I doing? This is crazy. maybe I shouldn't be doing this.
But then, on the other hand, it's like, Well, what if I didn't do it? What outcome, and putting things out there and it's gonna come back to you. And I think that that's such an important lesson or, to reflect on because I'm so very pro, putting the things that make you feel good and doing the things that make you feel good, prioritizing those.
Because even if, to someone else, they're like, I would never. I don't care if the most, elite person in the world, if I was, just had a baby, there's no way I would ever take a meeting, That's your values, that's, totally your business, and I 100 percent support that, but I think finding that, center for yourself, and finding what works for you and leaning into that and being okay with that, I think that's, like, The path to happiness,
I
Jordis Small: agree. One thing that I've taken from listening to your conversations with other moms has been so important is that it's not a one size fits all. And that we, are taught, there's so many damn courses out there and so much content and everyone has their way of, this is how you do this, and it's up to us to take that in, but then make the executive decision of, like, what works for us?
Do I want to hold that boundary, or is this worth it for me? And it's like, that retainer client of mine, well, worth it for me. it's been great. Redondo Beach, worth it. But it was. A fight,
Kate Christy: Mm hmm. Yeah. Whereas
Jordis Small: there are times, like, don't get me wrong, through maternity leave and having kids, I'd get a little bitter, gosh, I should be enjoying my baby, and that mom guilt sets in, but it's all things that you pick and choose and
do what makes you happy,
Kate Christy: yeah a hundred percent agree. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you forever And I'm like
Jordis Small: mom
Kate Christy: designer friends
Jordis Small: are the best
Kate Christy: I know right and it like took me way too long to find them Too it was almost like, I'm out here alone, and where are the other ones, that's so silly. They're out there. They're everywhere.
Jordis Small: You just gotta live a little harder for us because we're busy.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Or we're lying about having children.
Guilty. I did that for a long time.
Jordis Small:
I know we got to wrap up, but with conferences, like pre kids, I always went to conferences and loved them. Now that I have kids, it's a lot harder to go there. And I'm like, no wonder there's not a lot of moms there because they're all busy with kids sports and stuff like that on the weekends, and they can't just jet set off to, go to a design conference.
Kate Christy: Yeah. One thing I have prioritized as Of late, like in the last couple years, is taking minimum one week to go with other designers. Like, I, have a group of friends where we have a little one week retreat. sometimes we get to do it twice a year. But it's like, okay, this is a work. Yeah. Work trip. but it's just like removing myself from mom.
And being able to just be Kate and being able to just wear the one hat instead of the many hats. And that has been so wonderful. And that's been something that early on in motherhood, I would.
fight against that, like, oh, I shouldn't do that, or, shouldnting on yourself. But now it's like, no, this is a non negotiable because, The alternative is I'm just going to crash and burn if I don't plug these things in. And it's all a balance and a give and take of where you are in the parenting journey.
Like in the first year of my third child's life, I was like, this is not happening that's just logistics. Yeah. Just not right now. Yeah. but now that they're a little bit older and, I can. Leave my children for a week and everyone is okay.
Jordis Small: Yeah.
Kate Christy: anyways,
Will you please tell everyone where they can find you where they can connect with you online and if you're up to anything like you want to share anything plug anything, whatever have at it
Jordis Small: nothing crazy cool to plug. My business Design. Website, stellandesign. com. Same thing with my Instagram.
I'm on Instagram a lot. And then also just, I'm up for mom friends. So if anybody wants to have a chat, make a connection, or needs advice on pricing, Balancing packages, all that fun stuff. Or if anyone's gonna take on a City Logo Project, I'm happy to help share my blunders and tips and tricks for a successful project.
I'm an open book, so. That's a niche for you. City Logo Project
Kate Christy: Coach. Yeah.
Jordis Small: Coach. I'll
Kate Christy: coach you through it. Yeah. Oh myI was going to say, this was so much fun. Thank you for taking the time out of your day, especially if you're paying for child care currently. That means the world to me. and I hope we get to do it again soon.
Yeah, I would love that. Thank you, Kate.