Raising Kids & Running a Business
Raising Kids & Running a Business
032 | Choose Your Own Adventure with Caton Vance
In this episode, Caton Vance, founder of Vance & Co., and Kate dive deep into the messy reality of entrepreneurship, perfectionism, and trusting your gut.
He talks about the importance of listening to your inner voice, especially when navigating client relationships and making business decisions. He also discusses how modern work culture pressures us to keep growing.
Whether you’re a creative or a business owner, this episode is packed with real talk about balance, intuition, and redefining what success looks like—without sacrificing your well-being along the way.
Highlights
- Embracing Imperfection: how trying to avoid mistakes can derail progress in both life and business. Perfectionism isn’t the goal—learning from failure is.
- Gut Instincts Matter: listening to your inner voice can be crucial in business.
- Looking Foolish is Part of Success: the importance of being willing to look foolish when starting something new, whether it’s creating art, launching a business, or even navigating relationships.
- The Pressure to Grow: societal pressure to always pursue growth, but they agree that a steady, sustainable plateau can sometimes be the healthiest and most fulfilling path.
- Balancing Work and Life: rejecting the "grind yourself to dust" mentality that’s so prevalent in modern work culture.
- Client Relationships: importance of clarity and communication with clients, especially when it comes to managing expectations, is a recurring theme.
- Final Thoughts on Success: sharing that success doesn’t have to come at the cost of personal well-being or family time. For him, choosing how to move forward in business is very much a "choose your own adventure" moment.
Connect with Caton Vance online:
Connect with Kate Christy:
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Kate Christy: I'm super excited that we're doing this because I know you're a wonderful human being, all the people who get the opportunity to work with you in Are in your life, like your wife and your kids and your family, they know you're a wonderful human being.
So I'm excited to chat with you and have a recorded conversation for other people to hear.
Caton Vance: I'm glad that you're excited.
Kate Christy: I am. I am. And this is, a unique, experience on the podcast, since it's usually moms. So you're a dad.
Caton Vance: Am I the first dad? Am I the first dad you've interviewed? Or have you done a couple of these yet? Some other dads?
Kate Christy: Just number two.
Caton Vance: Okay, number two. Yeah, because Wait, who's first?
Who's first? Um,
Kate Christy: his name's Justin Wieners. And, his design studio is called Hot Dog. Design.
Caton Vance: I like the guy already.
Kate Christy: Yes. He's a fabulous human being and he's actually a fan of the pod and he will message me. Yeah. And be like, great episode. I love this episode. Yeah. And I was like, of course
Caton Vance: you got to have him on first then he's you got a proper fan.
Kate Christy: Yeah, he's like number one fan. But it hit me like, oh, like, not just moms listen to this, like, dads listen to this. And I had another client of mine, he messaged me too. It was like, I just listened to this week's episode. Like, this makes me really excited to work with you. And I was like, oh, okay.
It's almost
Caton Vance: as if you have, like, these instincts around branding and, like, Content and how that can maybe lead to business and opportunity. I don't know. That's just a random thought that jumped into my mind.
Kate Christy: Interesting thought you have there. Katen is your name. Marketing is your game. yeah, before we get into all of it, let's tell the people who you are.
What you do for a living, give them a little bit of the backstory, if you will.
Caton Vance: Oh, wow. Okay. my name is, Kate and Vance. I am the recent. like the jazz and like the business just started this year. I'm the owner of our creative marketing agency called Vance and company.
I'm a father of two kids. I married, I have a lovely home and a lovely family. I feel very fortunate and lucky in all those scenarios. I trying to think what spot I wanted to jump in first when it comes to like my work experience. I got my start in the creative field really in the filmmaking world.
I actually was worked at a film company here in Grand Rapids for about five years. The company's called Gorilla big shout out to them. They're incredible storytellers. I've really learned. How to approach projects, how to approach people and how to like move within the creative space in a way that actually helps people and brands and, companies like share out their story with the world.
And that's really where I got my start, if you will, I was doing some, like, very basic copywriting and some, like, definitely participating within the art scene and like all that before actually diving in there. But, I was also like an English lit major and a philosophy minor. So I like, there's stories and words and creating stuff have always been part of me.
But, I got my start there, but then quickly got the chance to lead a, consumer division, marketing and content creation team in a consumer division for this company called Polytech. I did that for about two and a half years. And that was where like beyond the storytelling, The start of that, it actually shifted a lot more into branding and marketing and more than just content and more than just creating videos That was really my way in was always like the video world, but like, it expanded very quickly Then after that, I got the chance to work with this wonderful company called closer and closer. They're an artist representation agency based out of L. A. and I got to work with, like, world class animators, designers, and illustrators.
And that was just, like, a wonderful experience. And that's where we met. so then, after that, I was in a weird zone of, like, what am I going to do next? So I, it took me about a year of, like, properly being thrushed into the freelance and consulting space of being, like, Wait a minute security is this weird concept that actually doesn't exist if you have a job or not might as well just start my own thing with this and it took me a while to get there but think I like filed the paperwork for Vance and company and like March of 2023 I didn't sign the paperwork with my partners until January of 2024 though so there was some deliberation there for a little while before I dove in but.
This year, I feel very fortunate. I've got incredible clients, and I'm able to like, provide for myself and family and I have a contractor that works with me on a regular basis who's incredible. His name's Dominic. that was the really fast version of my story. Do you have any specifics you want me to go into in any of
Kate Christy: that?
Oh, we'll get into it. Okay. yeah. So we met working on a website project for Closer and Closer. And it's funny because when you left Closer and Closer, my immediate thought was like, dang it, like, that was a cool dude. I hope we cross paths again.
Caton Vance: Well, then you reached out. I did. Yes, you reached out. When was that?
That was in November of 2023 or something like that?
Kate Christy: Yeah, maybe. Maybe, yeah. I think so. Okay. Well,
Caton Vance: you reached out around, like, the swap thing, and I was like, wait, because you were like, hey, what's up? How are things? I need some help with XYZ. And I was like, turns out, I also need a lot of help when it comes to, like, branding and messaging, because I was planning on launching Vanson Company, and you were like, oh, do you need some branding work and website development?
And I was like, you want to trade services? I'd be, I was, I was taken aback, in the best kind of way, because I, what you came at the perfect time, like when I actually needed that, and I was planning on pursuing some of that, but you were just like, Hey, what if I helped you? And I was like, please,
Kate Christy: it was off to the races.
I was like, I have this wild idea. I was like, he kind of feels like the person who'd be down for it. So what's the worst thing that could happen? Like he could say, no, that's that. But anyway, so cut to now and we've. Been able to work together, in our own businesses with each other, but also we've been able to work with some other businesses together and kind of, that, so that's been fun to, kind of have a sidekick or creative partner in some of the work that we've been doing because.
Working by yourself or for yourself can get isolating. So it's like, Ooh, I have like a partner on this gig.
Caton Vance: Right. Well, I think that's something that I've always appreciated about, especially creative business owners, like. We all have a really, I don't know if it's like self hate. I don't know what it's called, but like, we, I don't know, like, there's this thing where like, we got this.
I could figure this out. no matter what, I'm going to find a way forward and like the ability to like solve problems, especially in the creative space for like endlessly. But I think sometimes we forget to like, lift our own heads up and be like, Oh yeah, I'm not alone doing this. And there's others out there that, yeah.
Do you have some shared experience and do have, some insight into what we're experiencing on a day to day basis when we're just kind of like stuck in our own habits are stuck in our own heads?
Kate Christy: Yeah, well, I feel like we kind of go into it thinking like from a proud like ego perspective of I'm doing this thing like I'm in charge, like I've got it under control, from not like a.
Negative ego perspective, but from like an empowering ego perspective. Right?
Right.
And then like, it can turn a little toxic where you're like, I have to do everything because it's weak to ask for help. Right? And you're going to be so proud of me. What I did yesterday. Hi. So, um, backstory, I bit off more than I can chew.
Can you imagine? I did that.
Caton Vance: I did that. Yeah. I'm shocked.
Kate Christy: I did it big time. Okay. So the ship is going down anyways. I reached out to another web designer, Brandon web designer, and I was like, do you have space in your schedule this month to take some of my workload out? And I will pay you to do it. And she was like, yeah, absolutely.
A hundred percent. And it sounds so stupid to say, but like. It was the easiest conversation it took me like two seconds to say what i needed to ask and she was like yeah sure like let's get on a call next week and talk about what you got going on see how i can help you out and i was like oh silly kate you start crying
Caton Vance: because i might have started crying i've had moments like that for sure
Kate Christy: no but it was just like.
You know, I'm looking at nervous system is out of control. I'll just have these moments. I'll be like sitting, doing something and it just like panic rushes through my body because I'm like, Oh, all these things I have to do. And then it goes away. And then so like I asked for help and she said yes.
And I was like, Oh, I feel so much better now.
Weird.
We think, Oh, I've agreed to do this, or I've taken on this. And I was like, this is what people do when they get too much work, they get help. That's a natural progression.
Caton Vance: Yeah. And also it's almost like you get help. You find people that can actually see the world the way that you see it can work with you in ways that are going to help you like have more sanity and more time and maybe even spend time with your kids or your partner or whatever your situation that you're in.
it's weird when people help you, you almost are able to do more.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Very weird. speaking of children, you have some, tell me about that. Tell me about, okay, so like you, well, your work timeline that you've given us sounds like most of it has been in a creative field, kind of like not this traditional nine to five box.
Was any of it a traditional nine to five box? Like where you're going out of the house to work?
Caton Vance: Yeah, I'd say, well, before I was like in the creative space as an account manager and health benefits, but this is like pre marriage, pre kids, like the whole bit. So we don't
Kate Christy: want to hear about that.
Yeah, that that doesn't like
Caton Vance: gorilla was like a proper like production company. Like my experience there was everything from like me and another videographer. Going off shooting something, just me and him and putting some together in post production all the way up to like half a million dollar productions for like quick and loans, you know, we got crane arms coming from the Midwest talent from L.
A. D. P. From New York, like that kind of thing where it's like, oh, this is huge. And there's like 150 people that I'm in charge of, which is. At no point in any part of my life was I ever like, yes, that's what I should be doing. Um, but like, it was a really wonderful experience. But so like, that job was very much like a, hey, there's an office we're going in, but there was a lot of flexibility when it comes to like, if you're not on set, there's a lot of time where you can like, Work at a coffee shop or work from home or do it like there wasn't anything that was like really like you have to be in the office and I was a producer most of my time there so I was did enjoy the company and the people so I was really excited to go in polytech was definitely like a you're we're going in and like I worked that was pedal to the metal that was like strapping myself to a rocket ship we moved like we had three different offices in two and a half years because the team was growing that fast And we needed space for content production.
and we made things like this, like these resin, like encapsulated, like items. I mean, like, it's just, the company was crazy and it's like, worked with a bunch of makers. So we needed a physical space where people could come and make stuff. and then after that, I've been like properly in the remote life, like a closer and closer was fully remote.
Caton Vance: and then freelance and consulting is like, you kind of go to where your clients are, or you're like posted up at a coffee shop, or if you do like a Space type vibes. I've been Very fortunate that I, can bounce between all the coffee shops here in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I have some regular haunts that I definitely go to, and then like a lot of the work was one of my clients, which is a big one, like Steelcase.
I definitely go into their space, but they have a beautiful building with beautiful furniture and like, it's nice to go and take meetings there because I'm like, Oh, I'm not in my basement.
Kate Christy: You're like, I feel like a grown up.
Caton Vance: Yeah, I'm like a real person with a real job. But no, I mean, like the life balancing leading going back to your question around like Children, like it's definitely shifted a lot in my career and one of the honestly one of the parts and pain points of why my time at Polytech needed to change was I was working too much like I was there all the time had a very healthy boundary around like, about five o'clock I would leave no matter what I could would get back on after the kids would go to bed, but I was very serious about like, hey, my kids get back from school.
I've got like a two to three hour window where I'm gonna see them period. and that works most of the time, but not all the time. And some cultures and some companies will give really big lip service to, yeah, we care about families. Unless, of course, you actually have to take care of that family and not be at work, then they have problems.
So, um, I am learning now, though, a different balance. One of the cool things about owning your own business is like, you can set your own hours. And I'm learning that I still need to, be a better boss, to myself around, you know, Time and drop off, but like, I've got a pretty good schedule if you will right now with my wife around.
Yeah, I do morning drop off. She does afternoon pickups. because of I am running my own thing. I typically am home close to 5, sometimes earlier than I could ship those schedules of need be, but. I really want to be a present father. My father, I remember him coming home from work and playing with us.
And I don't know how he did it. I mean, I'm one of 12 kids. So that dude had, I don't know how he had energy for any of us at any point because he was also working like two or three jobs always just to Take care of us. then he was like a DJ. He was like a Christian DJ for like 21 years. So he made no money.
Like when people talk about like, Oh yeah, my dad did pretty good. I'm like, Oh, I wonder what that's like. I don't know what that's like. Uh, and that's zero offensive. It was just like he did what he thought was really awesome. And like, weirdly. Spurred a lot of like my original desires to get into content and storytelling because he would like write jingles and come up with spots for fundraisers for the, radio station that he worked at.
And I remember that way back when. And I also remember like the first time he let me talk on air. and like, I had just coming back from, I'm going to give people some proper nerddom here, like, in like, a very niche culture, like, I was, went, did a lot of Awanas, I don't know if anyone's familiar with it, but it's like this, if you're a part of a Baptist church, there's, This thing called a one is it's very much like Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts, but for Baptists.
so like you got to memorize verses and you get badges and you got to do activities and then you get stuff. He let me read some of the verses that I was memorizing to earn one of these badges on air. it like, Blew my mind when I was like seven or something like that, seven or eight. but I kind of spurred my love for podcasts and I've had the privilege of like starting and working on like six or seven of them at this point in my career, which has been pretty fun.
Did I answer your original question? I got off track. I don't, I don't know where it went, but I
Kate Christy: love it. because I've got a little, another little nugget we're going to drill down into now. Okay.
Caton Vance: Okay.
Kate Christy: Um,
I love hearing you talk about that, how you said your dad, who's like worked all these jobs, but he was present, but like, he didn't make any money when he was doing what he loved. Like That joy and fun and curiosity and playfulness like I see that coming across in you like that's definitely something that like you picked up from him.
Is this like work has to be fun kind of thing or like work is fun. I don't know. Maybe I'm like off base on that. But like when you were saying that, that's what clicked in my mind.
Caton Vance: I love that. I mean, like, I don't know if I've ever made that connection in my own mind. I mean, was a deeply serious person, but he was also so goofy.
It was his past. He still is, and I think that goofiness like translated, I mean, he was so mischievous all the time and like, wanted to like, be a prankster and like, be silly. But like, he had a really great, Radio voice. there's a classic saying around radio is like you have a face for radio, which typically means you don't look good.
That is not my father, but like he did. His voice was really, till this day. I meet people in town. Who used to listen to him on the radio station here like, Oh, that's your dad. I listened to him all the time. I love his voice. It's so fun. I was like, yeah, it's, it's a weird experience to have that.
But, it definitely spurned a lot of like love in me around the medium and around like audio. And I mean, I think podcasting is just radio 2. 0. So I like this stuff.
Kate Christy: Yeah,
Caton Vance: I've been trying to make it my own career for a while.
Kate Christy: Is there a reason why you don't have your own I mean, I know you're really heavily involved in the Delta project podcast What I know now, that's the name of it.
Correct? Yes. So that's kind of like your podcast Why don't you yourself have a podcast?
Caton Vance: Great question. it is definitely something that I've been considering. to put it very bluntly, there's enough white dudes with basketball. That's not, that's the wrong word. There's enough white dudes with podcasts right now, uh, in the world.
And I would want to make sure that it's very thoughtful and I'm offering something. A bit new outside of like me just talking with my friends, even though that is fun. I do like doing that. And I have done some of those kinds of projects, you know what I mean? But, like not in a bad way. And I, this is not a knock it gets other white guys out there.
It's just genuine. Like, I think other stories need to be shared a little bit more is all.
Kate Christy: True. okay. I have a story I want to tell you now that talking about just like getting on there talking with my friends. I had this experience last week and we actually had to reschedule the podcast, our recording because of it, because I played hooky and went hiking.
Caton Vance: Great reason to get to play hooky.
Kate Christy: Yes. So, For those of you who do not know, which no one would, because I've not officially announced this to the world, I'm coming clean, okay? I am a hiker.
This is like
Caton Vance: your new drug. That's the reality. It's like a new thing. Yeah. You're like addicted now.
Kate Christy: Yeah, I am. It's anyways. Okay. So long story. Not sure because that's not my game. My dad hiked the whole Appalachian Trail this past year, took him six months to do it, and I was his trail secretary, which meant uploading his YouTube daily vlogs and all that jazz, and of course, because I'm a designer and an overachiever, they had to be fabulous, so there was like this whole like designed element to it.
It wasn't just like, Simple videos. Anyways, that's my problem, not his. He didn't ask
Caton Vance: for that. You were like, Oh, you're going to get this.
Kate Christy: I was like, this is what we're going to do, Trent. but anyways, so he did this hike. And so I was like, very invested in what was happening because I was literally watching the videos, editing them every day.
And as part of his hike, he wanted to invite his family out with him. So I had never been to Vermont and I was like, I'm going to go hike in Vermont with you because I've never been there. I want to check it off the list. And so I went for a week and this was my first vacation, legitimate vacation that I had taken since starting my business in 2018 that I didn't check my email.
Wait, first
Caton Vance: period?
Kate Christy: First vacation that i took since yeah period
Caton Vance: i didn't okay okay keep going sorry i have some i mean you said it but i like it did like blue by me the first time you said that i didn't realize since you actually start that's. That's seven years.
Kate Christy: I mean, I've gone on vacations for those, but you
Caton Vance: were checking your email.
I
Kate Christy: was checking my email. I was getting up.
Caton Vance: I was getting up before everyone like doing a little work and then like going to the beach and then like when my kids would take a nap, I'd come back and I'd do a little work and anyways, so, you know, that millennial work ethic, um, just like work yourself into the ground.
Kate Christy: So
I,
this was the first one, but it was also like this unique experience where I Could not work. Right. I could not take my laptop with me because I would have to carry it on my back. Like, that was a no. That was a hard no. I could take my phone with me, but there was not a lot of service. So I was like, Oh, airplane mode.
I like this life. This is the life for me. So anyways, I go for six days and we walked like almost 60 miles together. And it was legitimately the most fun I've had while being so physically uncomfortable.
Right, right. In my
life. And yeah, like I got hooked on it. And because I've never been an outdoorsy person, like I've always been like an athletic person.
Like basketball, track, soccer, softball, all that stuff, right? Like that's Been me so going out for a hike or going out to kayak or something like that's not like first on the list. It's like, let's go run. Let's go play kickball. Let's do something sporty. but now I'm a hiker. Okay. I've come clean.
Everyone knows it. A dirty little secret, but the
Caton Vance: best part is like, he was a person with this is like, you're like coming clean with like a very normal. healthy habit and you're like, Oh, guess what?
Kate Christy: So with this experience of actually taking a vacation and then it came to the time where I was like, okay I'm going to check my email and then we were like in the hostel like the last day I had Wi Fi. I was like should I check it? Should I not check it? I don't know. What should I do? And it was this internal, debate that I was having with myself.
Anyways, I checked my email, everything was fine. Everyone was fine. It was fine. So I was like, oh, hmm. You can take vacations. This is a thing you can do. So I have since taken two more since then. And I have one scheduled later this month. So. Anyway,
Caton Vance: I'm very proud of you. I'm very proud of you. Thank you for coming to, uh, not vacationing anonymous.
That's what this podcast is officially now called all of you out there. Reminders. Take your vacations.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Take your vacation. PSA. so anyways, like I said, long story, not short. I met a dude while I was out there hiking who, was a flip flopper, which means he started in the middle, walked north, and now he's walking south.
And so I told him, I said, hey, like, when you're coming through Roanoke, where we live, like, look me up, like, call me, we'll, you know, if you need any support, need a place to stay, need a ride, like, whatever, like, call me. And so he came through last week, and that's why we had to reschedule the podcast, because he, like, picked him up.
I was like, okay, I have a proposition for you, sir. I was like. I will let you stay in my house if you let me go hiking with you one day.
Caton Vance: And he was like, Oh, shucks. Sure.
Kate Christy: Yeah. And so, but okay, now I'm to the point of the story that I was actually trying to tell that I have all the background details for everyone is that I went hiking, which is my new favorite thing to do.
But I also went hiking with a total stranger and you're in this like, proximity with this person, right? And so it's, you could just walk and be silent or you could walk and talk, right? And so me being a chatty Kathy, I'm walking and talking and I told him multiple times, like, you can tell me to shut up at any point in time, but.
I'm just going to keep talking to you if you let me, but the beautiful thing about what happened was that because we were strangers, because this may be the only time we ever have a conversation in this whole entire world, we were just talking about anything and talking about everything, and after the fact, I've been asking myself, why was that such a big, like, event for me?
And it's because we get so, bogged down in, like, the day to day grind, like, checking things off the list, like, going through the motions. That we stop asking ourselves questions. We stop thinking about things that would be cool or dreams or desires. We're just kind of like going through the motions.
And so since then, since I was just like asking this dude off the wall questions and vice versa, I've been asking myself these questions, like, for this whole past week, since doing it.
Ooh.
And I was like, oh my gosh, like, I thought my dreamer was broken because I'm so, like, bogged down at work and overwhelmed, everything.
But now I'm like, oh, I have ideas again. And another thing that I realized was having these conversations with someone that you don't know, like telling stories from the past, and we asked each other, like, what's your hobby or like, what's something that you're interested in doing that you don't have time to do or like you, you know, want to do?
And I was like, Oh, I have goals. Like, I have dreams. I have desires, like outside of this, like work, work, work, work, work. And so anyways, so you talking about. Just having conversations with your friends. I think that we should be having more conversations with strangers.
Caton Vance: Ooh. Conversations with strangers.
So that's, the name of the podcast. That's
Kate Christy: the name of the podcast. Talking to strangers on the internet, everyone.
Caton Vance: It could be amazing. It could also be a giant dumpster fire like the internet. That's like how it exists. There's something there. Probably
Kate Christy: to be the
Caton Vance: mixed bag.
Kate Christy: Kate is very concerned about his, you know, footprint adding to the noise.
I, on the other hand, am not. I'm like, noise, noise, noise.
Caton Vance: I mean, yeah, totally. I mostly, I think, go back to that, I have started so many and have done them. I also am aware of how much effort they take and how much consistency they require. . And if I started something like that, I wouldn't wanna stop until I had at least like a hundred episodes.
And I'm like, woo, that's a lot of work. Like, that's just kind of how I, because the average podcast or something that doesn't make it past a third episode.
I've helped start to that.
We recorded four and that was a lot of effort just doing that.
Kate Christy: there's definitely space for thoughtful conversations. And I do love the idea of having like, really. vulnerable conversations with strangers. There's definitely something there in regards to like, said around, I had the opportunity to just talk about whatever and ask questions that you're not going to normally do, especially in a work environment, a professional environment, parenting environment, even like friends that have known you for a long time, there might be some habits that have just baked in that you've forgotten to
Caton Vance: those questions don't always come up. Mm hmm.
Kate Christy: Yeah. And then, like, the longer you're in relationship with people, whether that's Personal like family, uh, work, right? You kind of fall into this habit of assuming they've got the information, right?
That we've been there, we've done that. We've talked about that. Like,
Caton Vance: oh yeah,
Kate Christy: we're just kind of like going with the flow at this point. Right? Like you get too comfy and don't want to rock the boat at all.
Caton Vance: Yeah, I comfortably, what is it? The thing about comfort is like a slow death. Yeah, it's a slow death
Kate Christy: outside our comfort
Caton Vance: zones and go hiking. that's the message of this podcast. Get out of your comfort zone and go hiking with strangers. Thank God you didn't get murdered on the Appalachian trade by,
Kate Christy: uh, yeah, yeah. One of the questions I asked though was, what's the craziest thing you've ever done and got caught doing?
And then I was like, oh, maybe, maybe we should have had this like, are you a murderer before we go in the woods? anyways, yeah, all that to say, have deep conversations with people, like, Because the alternative is you're kind of like running through surface level, and that's not interesting. That's not fun.
Caton Vance: That's not interesting at all. So what do you want to know? Now that you have me in the hot seat, what do you actually want to know, Kate Christie, about Kate and Matt? We can do this. I'm capable.
Kate Christy: Oh. I just got really nervous.
Caton Vance: So it has to be strangers. You actually can't know the person because then it the stakes.
Kate Christy: Yeah. It's like we're going to have to interact again. So, can't get too crazy. no, that's not true. That was just, that's like totally like going back on what I said the problem was. no, I do have some questions.
I'm going to segue out of this long tangent.
Okay.
Um, about transitioning into running your own business and you've kind of navigated expectations around output about what you around, what you've been able to do, accomplish, et cetera, while having small Children. Because what ages are your kids?
Caton Vance: Yeah, got two sons, seven year old and a five year old.
I also have a daughter who's in, who's 15, but she's in an open adoption. So she like, I didn't raise her. I do have a relationship with her, but like, we don't get to see each other nearly as often because I'm not raising her in my house. My sons, however, I, the questions around balance, like really, how do you parent and own your own business?
I don't know. Uh, I want to start there. Like, I really do want to start there. I think for me, I weirdly have found something that works better for my makeup. Like, as a human being. I have always, I'm like a really loyal person and when I commit to stuff, I like go full on. And it doesn't matter if it's the parenting thing, if it's work, if it's business, if it's somebody that I'm working for, like I want to, I really do wanna show up and give it my all.
And, you own your own thing, you have to put boundaries. You have to like set time for what, when you can do work and when you can't or else work will just run the show. Mm-Hmm. It is a, a giant beast that will literally beat you to death if you don't, like, put up some guardrails and, like, put some boundaries around it so it can't, eat you alive.
And I mean, we could literally just go back to the story that you just went on a tangent where you didn't go on a vacation for 7 years. Like I, have witnessed and seen so many of my friends and that own their own things or are in the freelance space, especially creatives because they typically have a passion and love for it on top of the need to like, you know, Eat food and have a roof over their head, so they tend to go so hard in the paint that they eventually fall out of love with whatever thing that they were making, or their business that they started because it started running their life.
I have the privilege of watching a lot of my ca friends and counterparts do that already. So when I, I'm 38, so I just started my business this year and I'm learning right now that I'm like, I do have some decent habits already built in around boundaries. Like if my kids got a soccer practice, I'm going to the soccer practice.
I'm going to be at that stuff. that's what my parents did for me. And like. remember the first time I scored a left handed layup in a basketball game, and I was in fifth or sixth grade. And I literally turned to the stand and pointed at my hand like, I just did that!
And my dad was like, left hand! And I was like, no! Like, that's important stuff in life. Like, you can't, he wasn't there, that wouldn't have been the same. I want to be there and to be able to shout random things at my kids, like pay attention when they're in the goalie and not looking at anything that's happening on the field.
You know what I mean? Like I want to be there. for me personally, I've established a pretty clear boundaries around like, Hey, I'm going to make drop off. I have had it happen this week. People like, Hey, I want to schedule a meeting for eight. I'm just like, Nope, I'm not available. Like I just did not available to, I don't care if it's a new business opportunity, I'd be happy to meet at nine 30.
That's after drop off. Like just from priority standpoint, like, I think our kids also pick up on that. am I the priority? Sounds like works the priority. And by the way, like this, this isn't like all hard and fast, like, set in stone, like some days I have productions where I'm like, I can't do pick up or drop off and I'm going to be on set from eight until six and then I'll hopefully make it home before bedtime.
And like, I'll give hugs and kisses, that kind of thing. But, do want the normal to be. Dad's at dinner dad's it will pick me up and or he'll drop me off and he's going to be at anything that's extracurricular period. And like, we're going to hang out and do fun stuff on the weekends. yeah, I think I answered that question.
Kate Christy: Yep, you did. I fall into the other category currently getting chewed up and spit out by my business.
Caton Vance: Well, I think you started asking for help.
Kate Christy: I did. That's a
Caton Vance: healthy next step for in regards to that. I mean,
Kate Christy: Yeah, yeah,
know that I feel
Caton Vance: overwhelmed very clearly and I have some real great opportunities that are right in front of me right now and I'm learning how to like, navigate those and like, oh, I maybe I need to bring a contractor on full time.
Like, maybe I need to like, because there's no way I could actually logistically take on more without something starting to suffer. and I really, yeah. Want to be mindful of that because like people are paying me money. and now that I'm paying other people, my money, I'm like, Oh, this is a different feeling when you start to actually give the money to other people, there are feelings there.
There are a lot of feelings there.
Kate Christy: Yeah. which is probably why we wait so long to pay people. Our hard earned money to do the things that we don't have time or energy or bandwidth, or even just like, that's not our wheelhouse. Like, I'm, like, very bad about taking on stuff that, Is like, I can do it, but should I be doing it?
Is this the best use of my time and energy and expertise? Probably not. Um, anyways, all that to say, I think that, having those boundaries in place prior to starting your own business, like that's like a superpower. I think you. You know, you go, like you said, you go into business because you love the thing that you're doing most of the time.
And then, like, all these other things come as this afterthought or this, like, damage control, right? Of, oh, I'm doing the thing that I love, but I didn't think about, like, making sure that I was charging enough for the thing that I love to do or making sure that I'm putting, boundaries in place that are protecting my time and my energy.
And, um, Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that's too dependent on, you know, the environment that you were raised in, what was modeled for you, which like cut to now we have the opportunity to model for our children, and also like previous work. Experience, you know, like, where you were before, like, how deep ingrained that, like, work culture was, right?
Um, do you think that working where you were for 2 years, what was the name of that place that was, like, growing, growing, growing? Yes. Do you think that that was like a catalyst for boundaries for you?
Caton Vance: yeah, a hundred percent. Cause like I, the weird thing about companies like that, owned by private equity and private equity, thinks that everything can hockey stick.
What I mean by that is like financially speaking, profitability wise, things are just going to go up. They're going to have a little dip and then rocket ship up. And they expect that every they're going to be able to flip their book of business every. Three to five years, they're going to be able to sell to another private equity firm, whatever companies that they've been investing in over the last four to five years.
So the expectations are like grow at all costs, period. And like, that's actually the North star. It's not like, yeah, we're going to invest in these family businesses and grow their customer base by really great customer service. That's actually how you grow a business. It doesn't mean that that's how they're going to support those businesses.
So, cause that's not, supporting your employees and your customers is a long term play, not a short term play. So like, a big believer in like Simon Sinek and a lot of his work. I really am trying to think about the longterm here. how could I have my own business until I retire? And like, how could I sustain my life and this business in a way where I'm not going to resent the fact that I'm associated with fence and company, or I'm not resentful of the clients that I have.
Like. I have witnessed a lot of that kind of stuff at this point in my career, and I also do a lot of reading. So, uh, I've read like a lot of the business books and a lot of like, Brene Brown and like, I just have done a lot of reading in certain spaces that like have set me up for like, how do I want to do this?
And the weird part is like, I think a lot of people forget that they get to choose.
Kate Christy: And I feel
Caton Vance: very fortunate that like, I, you know, Oh, I get to decide. And I, I just had a three month, evaluation with my contractor. Cause I agreed to a three contract with them. Cause I didn't know him from Adam, like never worked with them outside.
I didn't even do a test project. I was like, here's your shot. Uh, he showed up. It was pretty cool. but it was like, you know, I hired him for like 20 hours a week outside of like some of the production weeks they had, where I had them on set way more than I originally planned, but that worked out in everybody's favor.
But it was like a relational conversation where I could actually pause and be like, Oh, wait, like how I'm going to talk with this gentleman is going to dictate how my business works in relationship to like the impression for other people out there, because how I treat him is going to be a representation of how the work we do over here, like, they're all connected in that way.
Like, it's not. Nothing lives in a silo, like, I love how people think that like, I can treat this person like shit, and it's not gonna affect this person over here, I'm like, that's not how life works, like, I don't know what planet you're on, like, you punch somebody, it ends up hurting you, like, that's just how is, I just, we don't forget it all the time.
and it's not to say that you obviously can't be human. It really does matter how I treat this person or how healthy I am in relationship to them and how, safe it is to be around me or not safe to be around me in certain settings. Like that all, that all matters.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Truth. The golden rule.
Caton Vance: It's weird, but like, I can't tell you how many people forget it.
It's very much like, it's very core to me and my business and how I operate. But my goodness, do people not. Operate that way.
Kate Christy: Mm hmm. Yeah. I was thinking what the golden rule is, treat others like you want to be treated and then like taking that like a step further and thinking about how we treat ourselves in life, in business.
Kate Christy: and that other one, what it's like, self talk like negative self talk. Like, would you ever say those things to a friend? No, absolutely not.
Caton Vance: No. Humans are
Kate Christy: weird. Humans are weird.
Caton Vance: Yes. 100%. We are very strange. We're literally on a ball hurtling through space. And we're just all like, did you pay your taxes?
Like, what are we like? It's weird. It's crazy when you think about it. it's like a real like, we're over here, like, Yeah. Freaking out about things that are completely and utterly beyond our control. but like, we still somehow are just like, yeah, we can control what's going on. I'm like,
Kate Christy: yeah,
Caton Vance: no, I didn't kind of happen.
Kate Christy: One thing that I get in these, like, really weird, thought patterns around is like, thinking about things in extremes, right? Like going back to the vacation thing. Like I can talk myself into you need to be there to work because you are a business of one. You are the person who's doing the things.
You are the person who is executing on everything. If you stop, everything stops. Right. But then the opposite end of that was I completely stopped for it was nine days total and everything was fine. Right. But yet I can 100 percent convince myself of both scenarios. It's like I have the data, but like, yeah, there's still this like when it comes time to like take off or making that decision of like, man, I'm like, or even just like listening to yourself, right?
Like, man, I'm feeling really run down. I'm feeling like I need to take a time out. I, want to do this today instead of this, like, it is, going through a mental war zone to, talk myself through, do what you need to do for your well being. It's like, that's the, last option on the list all the time, which is totally nuts.
Caton Vance: It really is. And like, I, by no, stretches the imagination in the King of self care. Uh, nope. I definitely have lots to improve upon when it comes to, even learning what it is that I need. I, I, like said this earlier in the podcast, but I am one of 12 kids. I'm the first boy of that family. Like I've got an older sister and we're like, we were definitely Parenting all of our younger siblings growing up, I just learned how to like really survive off of a little and I don't mean that as a knock against my parents or my family or anything like that.
Like I get a little bit of attention and I'm like, yes, that's all I need. And then I'm like, I can go forever. And I'm like, that's not actually what full human person, a little bit of attention. That's not enough. Love for yourself, care for yourself, maybe exercise, maybe talk to a counselor. You know, like there's a lot of stuff that you could really do to help.
own person. I have to remember to do those things too. I have learned some of those lessons. I do want to like kind of set that example, especially for my boys. Like, uh, in 2022, I ran a marathon, but I first ran a riverbank run, which was like a 25 K and then I decided to run a river, marathon later that year.
And then I did the riverbank run again that following year. Uh, Uh, or in 2023, because of that job at polytech, I was really under, there was so much that was beyond my control that I really was trying to grab onto something that I could do for me that no one could hinder except for me and.
I can't tell you how many times that I'd be running and I would finally find that spot of like, Oh, wow, I am thinking clearly I am actually present in this moment. even if my lungs are burning and my legs are starting to hurt, like the whole bit, I did find that moment of like, selfhood, if you will, that journey, that I had forgotten about because I'd let, The job and my marriage and my kids and everything was swirling and I was just like, this is just chaos and I needed to step away so I could enter again more healthily.
Kate Christy: Yeah, you're usually the recipient of my what I like to call epiphanies.
And, um, yeah, one of mine was like, I went on a walk this morning and today just went so well. And you're like, oh, interesting. I'm like, who'd have thought, like, a little exercise, a little fresh air, like, clear your mind a little bit.
Caton Vance: Yeah, I think Thoreau, uh, he's been a, you know, a classic American author. Um, he writes a lot about walking. Like if you are stressed, go for a walk. If you're in a fight, go for a walk. Like if there's anything, pretty much any situation, a walk will probably make it better.
Kate Christy: Yeah. I believe it.
Caton Vance: Or a hike in your situation. Or a
Kate Christy: hike, yeah, a walk in the woods. Oh, okay, so on this, train of thought around taking care of ourselves, this is something that well, I've already announced I struggle with, but when it comes to parenting, right, like, trying to make sure that we're modeling, Healthy relationship with self, like healthy relationship with business, like all of the healthy relationship with our kids, with our spouse, like, with family.
How are you navigating that? you said that you've, you know, got these firm boundaries in place, like you're going to show up, but are there these things that are kind of like in the back of your mind that you're like, I need to make sure that I'm showing up this way or that I'm modeling this thing in this way as a parent.
Yeah. Who's running their own business to my kids so that, they don't walk away from this experience of me being an entrepreneur,
Caton Vance: coming away with like, well, dad was always working or dad was always gone or dad's head was always like somewhere else. Right? I think this balance that we're trying to strike of, we want to model hard work, like work ethic, right?
Kate Christy: We want to model that it's, exciting to be doing the thing that you, are called to do or love doing or really good at doing. Right. But also, doing it in a healthy way.
Caton Vance: how did I describe this? I think at this stage, they're like depth properly at the stage where they act, they don't really give a shit what I do. Like I've tried to bring them in a few times. And, even back when I worked at Polytech, they could tangibly see more of what I was doing, but I work like, a lot of what I do is like in the strategy.
Content creation, consulting zones if to help businesses grow. And it's very typically heady. And it's like weirdly like business counseling. It's not like, uh, here's a physical thing that I made that you can play with. So like for them, it's really, they can't get their heads around it. So what, how I've tried to take care of me so that they see a relationship with work and me owning my own business in a healthier way, for me, it really is like, am I present when I'm with them?
I think that that's all that they care about. Like here's a marketing thing. Know your audience. I don't think they actually care about what I do. They care about if I'm in play battlefront two on the PlayStation on Saturday with My oldest or can we go to galactic toys and do Pokemon safari for two hours where we can rip packs and see if we pull some really cool Pokemon cards, you know what I mean?
Like that's what they care about. and if I'm showing up well, I'm present in those moments and, kind and not like letting work it. and like, I think those are the arenas that I still am struggling with is like, if I do have a super stressful day at work, if I do have a lot going on, am I able to be present enough to how I am actually feeling and how that's affecting those around me?
I mean, I think that's probably like everyone's universal like lesson for all of life is like, are you aware of how you actually are being right now and how that affects those around you? I mean, that is definitely my lesson for ever and ever, because like, I, I do get excited with a little bit of attention.
I'm like, let's go. but I have to be present to my own, uh, inner self, if you will, so that I can show up how I'd like to for my children.
Kate Christy: Yeah, because I mean we can definitely set those like black and white boundaries of okay, I'm going to be at my desk from 9 to 3 p. m. when the kids get off the bus, and then my time is theirs.
But, like, you can physically be there with them, but, like, mentally
Caton Vance: Right. Right, you're just sitting there scrolling through your phone or, like, checking your emails as they're asking you questions, or, like, you're asking them about their day, but then immediately, like, not actually paying attention. I've absolutely been at fault in those situations where, like, they're, like, asking me to play, and I'm like, uh, uh, yes, let me Send him this.
Okay. . Um, and like, oh, like everything within reason and within balance. Mm-Hmm. For sure. But like, I want my sons to have the same experience that I had from my father, which was like, my dad loves me and wants to hang out with me and wants to play. And I don't, uh, summer has actually been quite hard in that arena because I did ACL surgery in July and I've been really laid up like I'm three months out from it.
And I've been going to physical therapy twice a week, and I haven't been able to play. Like, I haven't been able to jump on tramps or run with them or lift them up and do like crazy stuff that I normally do. And I don't like it. I could cry. Like, I do not like it. It is not fun. Like, cause it's very much like a.
What I want to be able to do, I cannot do. So I've had to find other avenues like ripping packs on the weekend, and galactic toys. Cause like, we all love that, so, that's pretty fun.
Kate Christy: Yeah, so, let's chat a little bit about, like, cause usually I talk to moms on this podcast. But now I'm talking. Yeah, I'm talking.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room
Caton Vance: dance.
Kate Christy: Um, no. So I think that's something that our generation is not up against. That's not the right. You know, that makes it sound negative. But is this like challenging gender roles like challenging what we're setting our household structure up as right.
Caton Vance: Yeah,
Kate Christy: so I think that, diving into these conversations, like hearing how people are doing things logistically, like, even if it's like that boring stuff behind the scenes, but I think it's important to have these conversations because if we're not having these conversations are not questioning or challenging, it's like, Oh, well, we're just going to subconsciously, like do what was modeled for us or just go with the flow.
Right. So like logistically, like, what does it look like behind the scenes at the, at the Vance house managing who working parents, children in school, children in activities, all that jazz.
Caton Vance: Yeah. Um, I want to start off by saying that I feel like my wife takes the brunt of the mental load when it comes to our kids. Like, um, I don't know if that is because of our personalities or how we work together, but like. I want to take on more of that mental load. It is definitely a dance that we're still learning how to do as parents and as like, we both work full time.
She's a full time copywriter at Striker. she definitely has a lot of flexibility with her job, like a lot. So that does play into this big time. She works from home too. So, and she's a writer. She, she needs really focused time. And after that, there's not a ton of other, uh,
where was I, behind the scenes? So my youngest goes to school around eight o'clock and my oldest goes to school about nine. I'm typically the morning, like. I do all the stuff in the morning.
Get up, get their lunches put together, them out the door, like, do the whole thing, get food them, and then, Kate does all the pickup afterwards. Like, when it comes to, like, house stuff in general, it's kind of split. My wife is way more. Way more, like, things have to be in order and clean. I come from the land of 12 children, like, chaos was, like, normal.
I've definitely moved way more into her camp when it comes to, like, and cleanliness and taking care of your stuff but, like, if we didn't clean the bathrooms this weekend, I'm not gonna, like, it's not gonna be a problem for me. It might be a problem for her. Like, like just how her own makeup.
So we balance those things, I think pretty well, I do the dishes, like she'll cook, but I'll typically clean all the time. Like it's pretty shared from where I sat, like, That being said, like I said at the start, though, she is still carrying the mental load of like, she's going to order the groceries, though, and she's going to think about the meals.
Like, I'm not doing that necessarily, but I'm also like, again, because if I was doing it, we're getting pizza a lot. It's definitely in that there's reasons as to why I'm not necessarily the one because I'd be so happy. So, like, it's so easy. She has a lot of like, Sensitivities when it comes to her stomach, too.
So she needs specific foods. I don't have any of that stuff. So it's very much like, give me some pasta and pizza. I'm cool. Like, you know what I mean? Um. I don't know if I'm doing a good job of explaining this or I think we're definitely not the stereotypical like I sit down and like she's feeding me or some like old school like it's very much a shared situation and when it comes to like parenting and bedtimes, we divide and conquer there too.
Sometimes we're both putting him to bed. sometimes it's just one of us lately. It has been a lot of her, but that's because there's seven and five and I was watching like funny fail videos on tiktok. they love that, and they're
Kate Christy: know what you're doing.
Caton Vance: Um, so.
Kate Christy: That's funny, that's what, Collins and the boys do before bed. They'll scroll like funny videos. That's their nighttime routine. A
Caton Vance: lot of, funny babies was one for a while. And then, like, lately it's been a lot of, like, people falling. They think people falling is hilarious.
Kate Christy: Yeah, let's talk about being human, being weird, and how falling is simultaneously the most embarrassing thing. Yeah, the funniest thing.
Caton Vance: Yeah, accurate on both accounts.
It's very true. And it is hilarious. Like, if you see a stranger or someone that's like struggling and then that actually takes a dip, like, it's hilarious every time I feel bad for like, 0. 2 seconds and then I'm laughing.
Kate Christy: Well, I think it's funny that. it is funny, like, that's the immediate reaction from someone viewing it, but, like, the person, why isn't it funny to us when we fall?
I'm gonna run that at the flagpole. We need to change this as a human race, is,
Caton Vance: to, well, laugh at ourselves immediately when we fall.
Kate Christy: Yeah, it's like, okay, like, we're not gonna be embarrassed, we're gonna laugh because it's funny.
Caton Vance: Uh,
Kate Christy: I shouldn't be spending my time on things like that.
Caton Vance: That's funny. II do want to return to something that you said, though, around like, um,really want my boys to be able to, like, take care of themselves, you know, that they have to cook for themselves. Like, they're getting a Montessori education, like, we do want them to be able to, like, be independent, and it's definitely not like, Mom's doing this and dad's this.
There is some of that dividing lines, but a lot that has to do with just
who we are as people and not because of like, cultural norms, if you will. I'm like, I know I do, this is some of the house stuff and when it comes to some of the parenting, all of it, like that kinda things. But, but like when I'm thinking about like the finances, all that even that we share, like it's not.
It's not like, hey, you're only doing this test. It's pretty much whatever whoever's on first. Let's take care of it.
Kate Christy: Mm
Caton Vance: hmm.
Kate Christy: you were talking about, like, mental load and, you know, Kate side note. I only interview dads who are married to Kate.
That's that's
Caton Vance: yeah, that's I think it's that's my thing. It's a good law. Yeah.
Kate Christy: talking about how, you know, Kate's carrying more mental load you know, is that her personality or whatever? And I just, I think that's a, the female trait is that we're just kind of either were, biologically or just that's something that we're molded into as we're growing up is just this Making sure everything's okay, making sure everyone's okay.
This is like, I think it might come hand in hand with this, like nurturing thing, not to say that like dads aren't nurturing, but it's just this, like, we've got to make sure everyone's okay. We've got to make sure everything's okay for everyone. And yeah, that does come with that mental load of is everyone have everything they need?
And,
Caton Vance: yes.
Kate Christy: Yeah. But then the downside of that is, you know, it's like your point of, we want to make sure that we're raising kids who can take care of themselves. Is that moms we can get so caught up in this like making sure the kids are okay that it's like, oh, we're enabling and, doing things for them that they can do for themselves.
And then whenever you're like, oh, you can do this yourself. They're like, ah. No,
I make
myself a bowl of cereal. Are you crazy woman? anyways, I'm happy to report that my Children can make their own cereal now.
Caton Vance: Good. Good. Yeah. I mean, my oldest has got breakfast at school when we drop them off and he thinks it's the raddest stuff on the planet because like, he's like, I don't need to eat at home anymore.
I can just eat breakfast at school. It's pretty fun. I was like, let's do it, man. It makes our lives easier. but anyways, no, I do think that there's, um,
We trip over our own feet with the things that we have when it comes to our own shortcomings, like Mm-Hmm, . I have absolutely seen the enablement of like, my wife just wanted to take care of 'em, and I'm sitting over there like, Hey, like, they can get their, they can do this. and if you don't move outta the way, they're never gonna do it because they'll just always default to you doing it.
Why? Duh. Easiest. Mm-Hmm. . Easiest path. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and, but like, also like the, it comes with a fine line because. when you are a kid, like it is wonderful when your parents are taking care of that stuff and you don't have to like shoulder responsibility so fast and it doesn't have to be rule of law in your home around like, no, you will always put your dirty clothes away no matter what, like it's been a long day, you can throw it in the hamper forum and they can just crawl into bed like that's not, there's gotta be some give and take in those arenas because Any extreme is unhealthy.
It doesn't matter what it is. Fundamentalism in any form, bad.
Kate Christy: Yeah. Um, this kind of like ties into your, philosophy around how you do business and like how you interact with the people that you're doing business with. Like, just meeting people where they're at and meeting people at this, like even playing field of like, We're human like we're all living this like human experience it's shared there's common threads and it's like taking into account that yes on paper it would be great if everyone behaved xyz it'll be great if the kids through their clothes and a hamper one hundred percent of the time that would be great but like at the end of the day what's the saying nobody's perfect nobody's perfect exactly.
Yeah, um, but that's one thing that I really, liked, or like, still like, currently like, uh, about you and working with you is it's just this very easy, like, conversation, right? It's not this, you know, it's not this, like, awkward business exchange where it's like, here are the rules. Here's what we're doing.
Here's the process. Here's the data. It's like, yes, all those things are involved, but it's like, it's a conversation, right? It's a, it's a partnership. It's a relationship. And I think that. More of us need to be approaching business in that way, right? Of let's cut ourselves and everyone else some slack a little bit and just, come to the table with.
Hey, we're all humans. We're all figuring this out. And like, as parents to write, like, we're all just figuring it out all the time. And, you know, I think in business, a lot of times we feel like, and this is akin to, like, not asking for help. Right. It's like. We don't want to feel like we are, kind of messing things up or we're not knowing what we're doing or we don't want to admit to faults or mistakes or anything like that.
And I was just having a conversation with my kid the other day. Who absolutely lost it because he was trying to be perfect on his math test. This was 100 percent internally motivated, but he totally derailed the rest of his day at school and got, you know, a note sent home about it because he couldn't get 100 percent on his math test.
He couldn't be perfect. And I was trying to explain to him. I'm like, There's no way around mistakes. this is universal law. Like, there is just no way around it. Like, but you, trying to be perfect, started, like, this negative domino effect for the rest of your day. And I was like, mistakes are part of growing mistakes are part of life.
Like that's how you learn. That's how you grow. But yet we're still here. I'm a 36 year old adult. And I'm like, Oh, I don't want to mess anything up. I don't want to get anything wrong. Um, so permission to make mistakes people. That's the message there.
Caton Vance: Yeah. I think there's a lot of lessons in what you just said, especially around like.
Starting things or even making things or, uh, creating a business or creating art or like any of it, like you have to be willing to look like a fool and if you're not willing to look like a fool, you're not really going to get very far in any endeavor, like it's part of it. like, even if you have a really beautiful brand that is designed by the great Kate Christie at folk founded, you're definitely still going to have the moment of like, Oh, I printed some cards wrong.
Or I like the way I position my brand or the way that my contractor makes a PowerPoint and starts manipulating some of the brand guidelines. I'm going to be like, that's not what I had in mind, but guess what? We're moving forward because it's. It's part of the process, like, um,
Kate Christy: you know what though, like, sorry to cut you off, but like that instance right there is you didn't have that conversation initially about how you envisioned it to be or like how you expect it to be.
And now you're like, oh, oops. I have to have that conversation because like in your mind, you're like, oh, okay. they'll do what I'm thinking. They know. Obviously, they know what I'm
Caton Vance: thinking. What? They're a mind reader. They know exactly what I'm thinking up here as if I would do it. That's ludicrous.
That's a crazy person talking. Yeah, so, um, I think willingness to look like a fool. I do feel very fortunate. I am somebody that has always been comfortable. That like, a lot of people get anxiety when they have to give a class presentation.
I would literally be like, in a classroom, especially in college, I was homeschooled most of my life in college. I'd be like, I will present if you guys do all the work, like, I happily go up front and talk the whole thing. Ease! So much! I was like, sweet. Like, I don't have to do any of the work. I'll just get up in front of people.
That's fine. Like, I'll do that all day. Um, because I didn't have that bone in me when it comes to like, feeling awkward. Now, I still have certain moments where that happens. Where I can tell it's like, my excitement is overwhelming me or nerves or whatever it is. it's really only in like business settings that I've learned that I maybe am not the right fit.
Kate Christy: and I, I'm like trying to be something that maybe I'm not, I am not. Hmm, so is that like a little like gut check red flag, like not in a nefarious sense, but like, oh. This isn't the right fit.
Caton Vance: Yeah. I think am I pretending right now because I want to make some money or am I being myself and like, this is actually a moment where I'm going to be able to help them and they're going to be able to help me, uh, by paying me.
Yeah. I like those relationships. Those relationships are great.
Kate Christy: Yep. We all do. WeNo, that's funny. like, listening to that gut feeling, that, intuition, and I think that's something that I'm working on. Like, I hear it, it's loud, but, um, I ignore it a lot. And then I get to the end of it and I'm like, Okay, you were right.
I should've listened to you.
Caton Vance: Should've listened sooner, yeah.
Kate Christy: Um, but luckily, I don't, like, I never look at that thing as like, That was a negative. That was a ding. It's like, okay, what did I learn from that? Like, what's the data that I can apply moving forward? and so maybe I've like mind warped myself a little bit into like, all of this is data.
All of this is information. This is not negative, but, I also could stand to listen to that gut feeling a little bit more and just like bypass some of the stress.
Caton Vance: Yeah, I think that's really important, especially like, as you continue to ask for help and as you continue to move forward, like, I, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, it is hard to, our voices are like the, thing that apply to all pieces of our life, like our relationships with our spouses, our relationship with our kids, how we work with the strangers, the questions we're going to ask somebody that we're hiking down Appalachian trail with, like, yeah. you gotta be able to like pay attention to that voice and like it's obviously like I said earlier it's not a hard and fast law though like sometimes your gut just might be hungry so just make sure that you're listening at the right times you know what I mean like it might just be screaming for hunger and you're saying shit that shouldn't be said you know what I mean but sometimes it's very much like a hey don't work with this person and that's when you should be like oh okay yep I need to backpedal or do the Nick Miller and like Moonwalk out of
Kate Christy: the conversation.
Classic Miller. we've been chatting for quite some time. I've loved every second of it. but, let's wrap this puppy up.
Okay. Will
you tell the people Where they can connect with you online, what you're up to, all those great details.
Caton Vance: Yeah. Uh, you can find me at the, my beautiful website that, Kate Christie designed here.
It's a Vance and company. com. Um, you can reach out to me directly through there. I also have an Instagram. It's at Kate and Jay. we haven't officially launched the Vance and company Instagram, and Tik TOK yet. We are working on it though, which I'm very excited for. Come to me. Yeah, you can email me at katen at Vance and company.
com. I mean like I'm you can DM me whatever like You can also reach out to Kate if you want to get a hold of me. She knows how to do it, too But no I what I'm up to these days I feel very fortunate I've got A really fun book of business. I work with a nonprofit, I work with a furniture company, I work with a lighting company, and then I'm doing other consulting things, but those main clients right now is enough to sustain my life enough for me to bring on a contractor.
I definitely have more opportunities that I'm trying to navigate how I want to slice and dice it at this exact moment, because I would need to bring on more help and increase my current contractors. But like, I'm also, a lot going on. So want to make sure that every decision that I'm making is actually Improving and I'm not growing for gross sake.
I don't, know if I'm more is not always better. So
Kate Christy: I've been having that same thought about, you know, we kind of get into the space and we're like, Oh, growth, growth, growth, what's next, what's next, what's next. And I'm like, I'm just trying to like, you know, like plateau, find that like beautiful plateau.
That's, my goal.
Caton Vance: Yeah. Yeah. I know what it's like to insist on the hockey stick. I had that experience at Polytech and like, I do. I do. I want to make money and do I have ambitions and do I want to have a, like a comfy lifestyle? Uh huh. Yes. however, the way I go about getting there, I don't think has to be detrimental to myself, my family and, or the people I'm working for and with.
I just don't believe that lie. I did like, there is a cultural perception that we have to grind ourselves to dust in order to be successful. And I don't believe that lie. I don't think it's true. Do you have to sacrifice and work hard at some points along the way? Yes.
But that's, if you're doing that every day in perpetuity, maybe you just have really terrible habits as a human being. Like maybe you should look in the mirror and not blame like the culture. Like you can choose. How to do this like this is a choose your own adventure for the most part people like we do get to actually go I want to go this direction now
Kate Christy: yeah, I think I want to adopt this. Choose your own adventure path moving forward. no, I love all that. That's such great advice. And, I can't thank you enough for, hopping on here and having a conversation with me. even when your powers out,
Caton Vance: so apologies about that.
Kate Christy: Hopefully it sounds good.
Caton Vance: Yeah, I do. Well, the second we get off here, I am going to go look outside and see what exploded out in my street, which was wild. So we'll see. Hopefully everything's safe.
Kate Christy: Yeah. okay.