Raising Kids & Running a Business
Raising Kids & Running a Business
028 | Measured Exposure & Doing the Best We Can with Kristen McGuiness
Kristen McGuiness, a book publisher, coach, and mother of two, opens up about the intricate balance between her entrepreneurial endeavors in book coaching and publishing through Rise Writers and Rise Books, and her family life.
She reflects on her path from non-profit work to entrepreneurship, the pursuit of sobriety, and embracing a flexible, adaptive mindset.
Kristen also explores themes of managing professional responsibilities alongside motherhood, creating meaningful moments with children, and maintaining a healthy marriage.
Highlights
- Kristen McGuiness's Candid Parenting Journey: reflects on navigating challenging times in her marriage while prioritizing stability and joy for her children.
- Managing Marital Conflicts with Grace: strategies for maintaining a supportive co-parenting relationship amidst relationship challenges.
- Creativity Amidst Chaos: practical tips for balancing writing and creativity alongside the demands of parenting and entrepreneurship.
- The Concept of Conscious Uncoupling: transformative impact on maintaining strong familial bonds post-separation.
- Practical Advice for Aspiring Writers: insights into navigating the complexities of book proposals and manuscript development.
- Reflections on Personal Growth and Resilience: anecdotes and wisdom on humor and perseverance in facing life's unexpected trials.
Connect with Kristen McGuiness online:
Connect with Kate Christy:
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Kate Christy: I'm your host, Kate Chrissy. And today I'm sitting down with Kristen McGinnis. Hello, Kristen. Welcome to the podcast. Hello friend. I'm so happy to have you here, but before we get into all the nitty gritty of what it's like to be a working mom in your life, can you tell everyone a little bit about you, who you are, what you do?
For money, for fun, as a mom, all that stuff.
Kristen McGuiness: I mean, I work and I mom, but I do actually, I've learned to, if you don't slide some fun in there, you will lose your mind. So I have definitely, I work very hard to create, space between those two jobs. but yeah, the work side of life. I am a publisher, a book publisher and a book coach.
I actually run two companies that are very much, connected. I have Rise Writers, which is a book coaching company that helps people to, write their books, whether they're looking to write a book proposal and so on. Sell it to an agent and publisher, or they're looking to write a full manuscript.
and we really sort of help manage people's author careers in terms of getting agents, finding an independent publisher, self-publishing, all of those pieces. and we do group in private coaching. And then I've got Rise books, which, really was born out of. the space of working with people whose books I loved and I knew they weren't going to be able to get a traditional book deal.
And I was often hunting to try to find them a small independent press. That would be a good fit. And then I realized, hey, why don't I just create a small independent press of my own? So, we have rise books and out of rise books. We also have a hybrid imprint. publishing where, you people don't know what hybrid publishing is.
It basically means you can pay to be published, but you receive all of the benefits of a traditional publisher in terms of publicity and marketing and sales and distribution. So that's my work life, and in all of that, I am also a published author and, my book, through this was the first book published by rise books, because I figured if I was going to score Screw up the 1st authors book.
I might as well be the 1st screwed it up terribly, but it's, totally fine. We're figuring it all out. And, really, I did that for. I mean, I mean that in the best way of, that's how you build a business, right? I mean, you don't know what you don't know, and you're just consistently learning how to do the thing to create the process to make it better the next time around.
I definitely do all of that. I joke. it's like, I have children dangling from me like earrings. Well, I do all of that. I very much there is a great clip from pink from 1 of her songs. And if you've ever seen it. Which is like pushing a hot rod up a mountain and literally, you're like, 2 kids are like spitting out the window and her husband's in the driver's seat.
Be like, come on, babe. And like, when I saw, I mean, I saw when I saw it, I got a true big emotional reactions. I was like, that's my, I am pushing a hot rod up a mountain. but yeah, no, I do it. I do it all with my children quite present and part of my life and my business. and I'm very proud to do it that way.
I don't look at that. It's, you were sort of saying before, right? Like you don't want this, you never wanted this podcast to feel like a bitch session. And I totally agree. I mean, it can be very hard. It can be pushing the hot rod up the hill. But there's also that piece of pink that like, she brings her kids everywhere and they get to like, be a part of it.
And I I feel that way about my career too, even though I'm not pink, but I think it is that way to be a working mom is really valuable, both for a mom and for a fan for your kids. So that's what I try to do to the best of my ability.
Kate Christy: Yeah. And I think that. Everything when it comes to running your own business and motherhood, it's all about mindset, right?
Mindset shifts, like, can I look at this a different way that makes it feel more fun or more exciting or makes me feel less dread about it? Right? Because we can talk ourselves into and out of feeling certain ways about things, right? You can look at it from one perspective of these kids are hanging on me and pulling me down and holding me back.
Right. Or you could be like, I'm carrying them with me, same thing happening, but two totally different perspectives around it. And that's something that's so humbling about motherhood and business ownership. Right. And you touched on, using you as the Guinea pig for your publishing house, right around, I wanted to make sure if I screwed up on anyone, it would be me to begin with.
And I think that. Maybe a human flaw is we want to avoid making mistakes. We want to avoid it, but that's really where we're learning and to think that people on the top got there making no mistakes, right? That's just setting ourselves up for failure.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah, no, it is. And it's like, that's part of, you know, especially when you're building a business and you've never, II mean, I've had a digital business for a few years now, which is actually a great way to get into entrepreneurship because there's no overhead, I mean, there's some, but I mean, it's not like significant, you know, the costs are really low and very flexible, so if you have to shave something, it it's not usually a person or a thing, it's just A service, you know, you're like, I won't subscribe to that thing anymore.
but moving into something that is way more bricks and mortar in the sense that I am publishing a physical thing, a book, which requires, actual production and requires shipping requires warehousing requires, like, there's a lot more people involved in a lot more, overhead, just financial involved.
it changes everything and you have to learn to be a different entrepreneur that, I mean, my husband owns a pizza shop as well. So we're double entrepreneurs, which is like level of crazy for two people who've never done entrepreneurship that like, we just didn't know, I never would have even known the word entrepreneur 10 years ago.
Like that's, I mean, I knew freelance, you freelance I did, but like. Really running a business in our pizza shop, you know, we have W twos and really knowing how to navigate that. it is really hard And it's something that, there's not really a school for.
I mean, even an MBA doesn't show to do that. You yeah, and doing that with 2 small children in tow. I mean, it is very hard. I would never say that it isn't it's. it's put a lot of, I mean, I said to somebody yesterday, like, I mean, I would say this openly, like, our marriage has definitely been on the line.
Like, we don't know if we're going to make, like, we don't know if our marriage is going to make it right now. We don't. I mean, we might simply have just applied too much pressure to it that, like, we don't know if we can get it back. And we're both very honest about that. because running 2 businesses with 2 small children, you know, you just like, we're not super human.
I mean, we might pretend we are, but we are just 2 people, 2 mortals trying to, like, make it through and at a certain point, that level of stress just makes it, really difficult. So I do find, like, running a business. I mean, said to somebody yesterday, like, I'm definitely in the part of the piece where like, it's all feels like it's burning down, but I know like a new story is being born,
and I do feel like if my husband and I come out of this, we will be people that like go on tours, like have a lecture series about what not to do. Seriously, if we make it, if we end up with two successful businesses out of what we are going through right now, because it is really like. Trying to do that.
We just didn't know, like, it was like a thing when we didn't know what we were doing until we were too far in. And then we were like, oh, God, and we do feel very, like, we're not cut and run kind of people. we're very loyal people. We're very honest people. We're very committed people. And so we are trying to navigate our loyalties and our honesty and our commitments to the best of our ability under, like, extreme financial and professional duress.
and like I say, I've joked, I'm going to pitch out this story called the radical hope of spectacular failure because like, because it is definitely, we are not on the side of the story yet. We're like, and then it all worked out. we were definitely in the part of the story where you're like, I don't know if it's going to work out.
So, yeah. Well, we're all biting our nails, but yeah, but I mean, I think that's, you again, having been somebody who like 10 years ago, would never have said, I want to be an entrepreneur one day kind of stumbled into this entrepreneurial world with no real experience or mentorship. and then, yeah, navigating that with children that, When I opened my business, Dylan was, he was just about to turn 2, so he was like 18 months when I opened Rise Writers, my book coaching business, in the middle of the pandemic, it was July of 2020, like a lot of people, and I think there were a lot of people who became entrepreneurs in pandemic, because.
1, I was able to quit my day job. I had gotten extra financing from the government, like a lot of us, and offered an opportunity to actually leave my day job. but 2, you know, there was a lot of, like, you only live once during the pandemic. That was, In that day job once my day job became a zoom job all day long, it actually was I was working from home already already had a remote position and that remote position was great when I had only go into the office like twice a month and I really had control over my schedule every day.
And if I wanted to, like, go to the pool at 3 with the kids, I could do that. Once that job became a zoom job, I was on zoom from nine to five every day with an 18 month old and a five year old at home. And it was like crazy town and I just couldn't do it. So, I will say that about owning my own business.
That has been so beautiful like I told you before I came to do this with you today, like I was at Dylan's school by that 18 month old just turned five yesterday. And I was at his preschool this morning and he was like giving me the tour of his garden and where the miniature horses and the tortoises.
And it's like, I never get to, I actually don't really get to do that, but I was thinking to myself, this is the beauty of owning my own business is that I get to have this schedule that I do spend so much time with my children. and that's just, It's been so critical for my life and what I feel I get to.
I mean, I do think we're in a weird balance right now because there's so much stress in the home that it's not really the version of it that we would like. But I think that once we get through this, that freemium schedule is just so amazing. Like, I pick my kids up every day from school by like 3 or and when I had a day job, it was definitely an 830 to 530 day for everybody.
So it's not easy by any means. And like I say, my husband and I, being double entrepreneurs has definitely been. very stressful endeavor because you don't have that consistency of income from 1 person and that consistency of just stress, you know, and that's the nice thing about a job.
Is that like,you kind of know what the stress is. And even though there might be some spikes, like, you know, when those are happening to, what that looks like versus when you're owning your own business. There are a lot of unexpected spikes in stress that you're like, what the hell is that?
Kate Christy: Yeah. And like you were saying about Dylan taking you around his school, giving you a tour this morning, right? Those are the things that can be those bright spots, right? Or those, moments that you can hold on to and say, okay, This is one of the exciting things about being an entrepreneur.
This is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this. Like I'm going to put this in the positive column, right? When there's a lot of stuff happening in the negative and it's, you have to kind of stop and catch yourself. To appreciate those moments, right? I had this conversation yesterday with someone around my babysitter who is having a hard time with my daughter because she's doesn't want to nap anymore.
And then she turns into a wild woman about two hours before we pick her up. And she's like, I just, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, ah, I don't know either. But I was, thinking, how am I going to rearrange my schedule so that I can go pick her up earlier? Yeah. And at first I was mad about it because I was like, I'm not going to have enough time to do what I need to do in my business during the day.
And then my second thought was, why do I want to work all of that time? why is my goal not to figure out how to reduce the amount of hours that I need to work instead of figure out how I can. Make more time to work. I need, you know, like going and picking up my kid earlier should be the goal.
And I caught myself. I was like, Oh, whoops. I've got this twisted. Yeah, but when we're running our own businesses and we're in charge of. Making sure that everything's running smoothly, making sure that there's money coming in, right? We're the only one standing in the way of a good month or a bad month.
Sometimes it feels like, right? And then like your pizza shop, like you have people who are depending on this, you're supporting the livelihood of other people too. And then you're publishing, right? You're supporting the livelihood of your coaches and the people who are working there. And then it can just all feel like so much.
So then we're like, okay, we're the only people who can make this happen. So this should be our focus and it's a mindfuck, right?
Kristen McGuiness: It is. I mean, I was thinking that today as I was driving home, because even as Dylan was taking me on that tour, like I had to keep setting aside the sense of urgency to like, let's wrap it up here, buddy.
because I was like, I had to get to you right now. I was like, I got it. And I left my phone at home oddly enough, which never happens. But of course today it did. And then, it was like, I saw some like a silly video on, Facebook the other day. It was like, you know, one of those, like somebody in a podcast and they were saying, whenever you get really frustrated at your kids, Just imagine that you're 80 years old and you can take a time machine back to that moment.
And like, this is the only moment you have with them, and I was like, Oh, that reminder of like, and I just like thought to that to myself, like, if I could just take my, I know there's going to be a time in my life so many times in my life if I could just like time machine myself back to that moment of like, holding his little hand and him walking me around the garden, like, I would give everything in my existence to like, get that back, you know, and I was like, like,don't lose that now, don't lose sight of how beautiful and how precious like this is because there will be a time when it doesn't exist in the same way.
I mean, I hope my son always holds my hand and walks me around a garden. Like I intend that my children will, I always tell them you're never allowed to stop hugging me. I don't care what happens. If you're an angry teenager or not, my daughter has promised. She will not do that. Barbie movie. And like America Ferraro, like tries to hug the daughter.
She like gets out of the car. And I was like, you're not allowed to ever do that. And Ella was like, I will never do that. And I was like, okay, I was like, I actually feel very confident with like your level of confidence on this. And I do feel Dylan will always hold my hand, but nonetheless, it won't be that little hand, right?
It won't be that feel of that little hand in your hand and just like, oh, my God, like the squishies, of this time as hard as they might be. and yeah, as I was driving home, I was like, thinking about that, I was thinking about like, what motherhood look like through the ages. And then I was even like, I was even thinking about, I was like, wait, when did a middle class, like the idea of like, middle class, right?
because different, class systems had different relationships with children throughout history. peasants had different relationships with their children than like the elite did, and, just by nature of what their lives look like. And then, and then I was like, was there a middle class in the 1400s?
We're done here. But, because I was kind of thinking like, the ability to spend time with your children. and I'm somebody who loves work like Ella, my daughter, and I were talking about that the other day about If I didn't have to work, just momming all the time.
And I was like, Ella, it's not like I would love to parent more. And I do actually parent like a lot for somebody who is also running businesses because. My husband's always at the pizza shop, I do bedtime by myself almost every night, every day but I was like, telling her, I was like, but I'm I have like, a mind that has to work.
I would not enjoy not having that. That would, I would never be that kind of person. But at the same time, getting to spend, like, I just think of, regulated nervous systems and being able to spend that kind of like. uninterrupted, unurgent time with our Children, which is so hard when you have to get home and get the work done.
Right? You know, when you're like, oh, I have to pick them up earlier, but I got to do this and it is hard to be able to like, navigate that to just be like, completely present and not have the idea in your head of like, what do I need to do? In order to pay the bills, right? or even if it's not just pay the bills, but like honor myself and my own integrity and my own desire to work and like think and create and do all the cool things we get to do in our jobs.
You know? So. I think it's a real challenge that it's not like a complainy thing as much as it is just always trying to figure out, the process, that makes it easier, when you were saying that I was like, wait, if you got your daughter earlier, could you get her to nap in the car, transfer her at home?
And then get some work done.
Kate Christy: Oddly enough, that's what happens.
Kristen McGuiness: I mean, maybe the early car ride home is actually the solution because she might just crash out and you get the two more hours of work or an hour and a half at home. So yeah,
Kate Christy: And like you said, you're trying to be present.
You're trying to say, 20, 30, 40 years from now, I'm going to look back and Replay this moment and say, why was that my priority? This should have been my priority. Right. But being present is so hard across like all different types of things. Right. when our minds are going, you know, a hundred miles an hour and we're so much input all the time.
Right. it's hard to still and hard to focus and hard to just be okay with. Being in moment to moment, because we're always thinking about what's the next thing or what's next on my list or what did not get done today or what needs to get done. And just like the mental load of being a woman, being a mom, being an entrepreneur, right?
It's just, It's really hard to quiet all those voices,
but, yeah, so she came home yesterday actually, and passed out until like six o'clock or something. And I was like, well, this is going to be interesting for what bedtime looks like.
what did it look like before rise writers and rise books? You worked a real job and, you know, air quotes, real job. But you had already had your daughter at that point and your son was almost two years old when you started this. So yeah, give us a little bit of like pre rise.
What did that look like?
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah, it's funny you asked the question because that's what I was going to share about only because my motherhood journey and my entrepreneurial journey are actually so linked. So prior, you know, I worked in nonprofits and I was the, like, chief strategic officer, I don't know, I don't know, it was some kind of, I oversaw fundraising and marketing.
And so they, like, gave me a weird title to basically be like, she does that, and I worked there for 6 years and I hated every minute and that's not to say, like, I always say this, like, I love the people I worked with, but we used to joke that. It was like, we were the cast of orange is the new black.
We actually worked. it's an agency that helps out in foster care And it is good work. It was like a guardian ad litem program. So there's sort of like a, I mean, as a person who's very connected into social justice, I I was working nonprofit in which I couldn't say I wholeheartedly believed in the work because I do think that
there's a lot of recruiting of, like, white, wealthy volunteers who are coming into non white spaces and certainly non wealthy spaces and then offering their opinions and judges typically would, listen to them over other people involved in the case that. had a much better, a deeper understanding of the systems and the cultures in place.
So, I can't say I had worked for another organization that I was like, 100 percent behind the mission completely understood what we did loved everybody. Like, it was very much like, I worked for a nonprofit where. Every single director in our company culturally was culturally reflective of the children and families we served.
And that always felt like, okay, that's appropriate. usually from the same communities, like the same neighborhoods, even, we had an office out in Boyle Heights and the guy who ran that office was from Boyle Heights, youso it just felt like these are the people who know best.
in our entire, it was a primarily. Latino organization and like, our executive director was Latino. it was so in alignment with the children we served. And, I worked in fundraising at that organization. it aligned with what I believe this other organization did not.
so I worked there for 6 years. The people were all awesome. I mean, the staff, I didn't necessarily like, I don't, love volunteerism in that way. So I struggled with that side. but, it was a day job and I took it when I was pregnant with Ella.
my 1st child, so I had worked as a freelance, ghost writer for a few years prior. so from like 2010, I left that 1st nonprofit to 2014. I was ghost writing books. I went to live in Paris and got a master's degree. Like, right after I got married, my husband and I lived in Paris for a year. I came home, I actually was a, like a producer on a news program called Take Part World.
that was part of a bigger program called Take Part Live that participant media did. And then I landed, like, I had gotten pregnant and I got this, Job, just like grant writing, just on the side that then turned into this career. so I was very much clocking in. And so I had never actually, I've never had a job where I did that before.
I've always worked in industries that I love that. I was passionate about that. Like,I came to work every day excited about the work. AndI was sort of shocked to find myself in this scenario, but I. My husband has always struggled with work, so I've always been the primary breadwinner. That is just that is kind of a hard part of our relationship.
He's an awesome dude. He has severe ADHD. He's not a good employee, but he's now running his own pizza shop, but it struggles to, in part, because it's just hard to run a restaurant. And so I, you know, like a lot of women, like once I had that baby, I was like, Oh shit. finance became a much bigger, like when it's just two people that are like, Oh, whatever.
Like we'll figure it out. we had a house that we were renting. We got roommates. Like we were definitely, we're kind of hippies. Likeit wasn't that big of a deal. Like we just always like, you know, I could get a few extra jobs. But then we had a baby and that felt way more like I need to have stability here.
I've got to be able to feed a child. And so I took this job for the stability, but I realized, and so then a few years in that job wasn't enough. I went back into ghostwriting and I started working two full time jobs. So basically what I realized we were living in LA. And it's really hard to live in LA on a single income household, especially since I wasn't a lawyer.
I worked in fundraising for a nonprofit. Like, it was like, I was bringing home the big box, you know, like it was a stable income, but it it needed two stable incomes. So I started ghostwriting at night. And I remember during this period, I was having coffee with the person that I worked for at this company and I was ghostwriting a lot for this publishing house.
and she said to me, you know, what I love about you. I almost forget that you have children.
and that is how I worked. I was pregnant at the time that she said that comment and I had a. Ella was probably three or four, I guess. Yeah, she would have been three. So she was three and she went to preschool from 830 to 530.
My husband was Ubering during that period. So he was responsible for picking her up. And then we ended up moving up to Ohio where we live now. So he was kind of just stay at home, dadding. And I would go into the city. and actually Dylan, when she said that no Dylan was born already. So Dylan was like maybe nine months old, 10 months old at that time.
So I had a baby. And a four year old. That's right. That is. I had two kids when she said that comment to me and truly I had a baby and a four year old and like it was true. You almost forgot. I had children because I sort of live this double life where I worked so much And it was heartbreaking. Like, I remember one time coming home from LA, I was commuting to LA, which is an hour and a half from where I live.
And I would usually stay at that woman's house one night a week. And then I do meetings in my office, my day job. I would like do meetings with her at night. I would come back on the train and I would write books at night. And Dylan was being watched by my husband, but also we had a nanny. and I remembered one night coming home and putting Dylan to sleep.
And I realized that he barely saw me. He saw other people, like, he wasn't in preschool. He wasn't in daycare. He was home all day long. He wasn't home with me. and it was really like a horrible, like, I just remember like sobbing, holding him, sobbing at night. and it was around that same time where she had said that to me and I realized, I'm not parenting.
I'm just working and I've got a baby, 2 months later, COVID happens and everything shuts down. But that didn't change that because like I said, I was zooming all day long. So like my children's and then I was still ghost writing those books.
So like my children still weren't seeing me like we put a deadbolt on the bedroom door so I could just lock myself in all day and it got really hard. so I quit both of those jobs. In May of I remember I did it on May 4th. I was like, May the 4th be with me. And I literally quit both the jobs on the same day.
and I launched my company two months later in July and then really officially started in September. Cause that's when I like shut down both. I stopped working at both jobs then in the fall. laugh now because, no one would ever say, I forget you have children.
Cause my children are so prominent and present in my businesses. I knew I was like, that's not how I want to do this. Youdon't want to do it in a way that like, I don't see my children and, and other people don't see my children. I don't want my children to be invisible in my life.
both for myself or to others. So. my kids, they happen to be at school today, but there are a lot of days, like, if my kids are sick, there's nobody else to take care of them. I do zooms all day long with children just popping into the frame. that's just how I've had to roll in my new life.
And frankly, like, I very much have like a piece, like, if people don't like it, then I'm not the person to work with, If that is disturbing to you, or isn't comfortable for you to see them, that's okay. There's another book coach out there. There's another publishing house out there.
Like, I never want to work in that way again. And I just can't, there's not like, I don't, if I had another option, maybe I would do that, but I don't. And that's just where we're at. so I definitely feel that like becoming an entrepreneur was very much inspired by that piece of like, I want to be with my kids, and Dylan is very clingy.
And I think that's because I was absent, during a very critical part of his development. I basically, when he turned. You know, it was only for like a really bad six month period, but like it was from. When he turned, it would have been nine months to a year and a half, that six month period, I was just gone.
I mean, I was completely gone. and even then into pandemic, you know, I was gone. So, it was like, a probably a good year where, like, I just went missing until, right before his 2nd birthday. And I remembered that 2nd birthday as being like, to me, it was like the turning point of, me getting to know Dylan again.
me and Dylan, like coming back together. and then he's literally stitched it. He's stitched into me. That's why I say Dylan will never not hold my hand. Like Dylan would have literally hold my hand for the next 60 years. Like he is very much a mama's boy. we're trying to like wean him a little bit, but he's like, he's just constantly on me.
and I love it. And I'm so grateful for it. was really like a horrific thing to not have that relationship with my baby, and I love being a mom. Like, I feel, you know, I wasn't somebody I had never been around children growing up. Like, I don't have cousins. I don't have siblings.
Like, I am an only only child, which is a very rare. my grandmother has no other grandchildren. so yeah, I have no siblings, my mom had me and then my parents split up and my mom never remarried or had any other kids. And then my mother has two brothers, one of whom was gay and at a time where gay men were not adopting children.
And then my other uncle, he ended up losing his wife to breast cancer when she was 30 and he was 40. And he just never found another mate. You know, he never had children. He's now adopted a little girl, and so I just never, you know, it was always just me.
My grandmother and she didn't have any other grandkids and that was it. So there were never other children around. I wasn't like a babysitter. I wasn't a person who was like, Oh babe, even now, like I do not like babies. Like when I see, I'm like, Oh, that's good for you. Yeah, same. I've no baby fever.
I've never had baby fever. I actually say to my kids, I was like, I don't like babies. And they were like, you're not, you didn't like us. And I was like, I mean, I liked you, but I definitely felt like once my kids turned like 18 months into like, I have such a different relationship with a toddler than a baby that babies are very hard for me.
Like, I just don't have that. But like, once my kids turned toddler, like. I was so in that was like the latch moment for me. Like, Oh my God. Like,I love every inch of you. I mean, this morning I was with them, like I was holding one of their feet in one of their hands and I was just like, this is all I ever want.
Like, I just want to lay here and like hold an appendage.
Kate Christy: No, I was the same where I did not like children. I never babysit or didn't like children. I had brother and, you know, I was around cousins and all that stuff, but I was just like, no, thanks. Like pass. I don't need, that's not the life for me.
And then I got pregnant and I was like, okay, I guess this will be my life. Yeah. And then I had one and then I had two and then I had three and I love them absolutely more than anything in this whole entire world. But someone's like, look at my baby. I'm like, Cool.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah. That's good. Good. Congratulations for you.
You want to hold it?
Kate Christy: I'm like, no, I'm okay.
Kristen McGuiness: That's me too. Yeah. My husband always picks up other people's babies and is like, and then he hands it to me. And I literally, I look like somebody who's never held a baby in their life. I'm like, Oh, cute. Get this back.
Kate Christy: that's not cool though, about biology, right?
Like we love our own children and we would do anything for our own children, but we're just like, nope. That's it. just these children are fine.
Kristen McGuiness: I'm interested in, you know, no, it really is. my grandmother was saying to me the other day, cause she was like, did you really like want children? Because I actually had a lot of like, I wouldn't say it was postpartum depression with my first, I think what it was, was actually like independence trauma.
I had my first child at 37 and I mean, again, I'm an only child. I'm like an extremely independent person who has spent an enormous amount of time alone and I love people. I've always had friends. I've always had, like, deep social groups, I think, because I was an only child.
So I've always had, like, lots of best friends, but I also have always spent a lot of time alone. And. My husband is very independent. we will travel without each other, like all the time. we love going on trips. Like he likes to do like his surf trips that like, I would never like, he just wants to go surf and do his thing, and I want to go and travel and do my, I go to New York city all the time by myself just to like, seriously, like walk the streets alone.
and those are the things like we've kept up into Like when Ella was 18 months, I went to New York city by myself for like, Two nights, three days, and I came home and I was like, this is all I need. Like,I don't need to do it all the time, but like, if I could just get this once a year, like it's enough for me just to feel centered in who I am.
And now, as you know, we've done better with life. I try to go away to like a hotel right now. Financially, I haven't been able to do it. But at one point I was trying to go to a hotel just once a month for like two nights, even if it was local, just to give myself space where like, I get to go to sleep without putting a child to sleep.
I don't like sleep in because who does that? But like, I get to wake up when I want to wake up. I get to just like, I might work the whole time, but it's just without somebody yelling mommy in the distance. And it just gives me that little bit of space and fun, you know, and I usually do something like, I'll get a massage while I do that or something, but like, I'll do something fun or go for a jog.
I just get to have like a little break from being a mom for like a day or two that just, refuels me to like, come back to the job. so I think when I had Ella, I wasn't depressed because I actually feel like I know what PPD is and that wasn't how I felt. I actually was just terrified that I had lost my independence because I had always been independent.
And as soon as I was holding that little newborn baby who absolutely was dependent on me in a way, nothing had ever been dependent on me in my entire life. it felt like a prison, you know, it just felt like a, and I don't, I don't like to use that term lightly, but it did, it felt like, Oh my God, I'm never going to get to leave.
I'm never going to get to like, Go to do something by myself again, which obviously wasn't true, but like, when you're holding that newborn, that's what it feels like, you know, and it was such this, incredible, distinct loss of independence within one day. Right before. Even though, you know, eight months, nine months, nine months pregnant, like I could go and do whatever I freaking wanted.
I could just walk out and go to see a movie by myself if I wanted to, youand suddenly I knew that like that was over and I had just so much grief around losing that independence, I mean, by the time Dylan came though, I had such a different experience because I knew that wasn't true.
I knew that I was going to go through a period of that. But that within a few months I would begin to like, get to go out more. And then I would ultimately get to go do the trip to New York city again. And like all of that would happen. And so I had a very different experience with baby number two. one, obviously, you know what to do more, also like, I didn't get that feeling of like, I'm never going to get to leave, which is terrifying.
Kate Christy: Yeah. I've had a lot of conversations with guests on the podcast about that grieving period around. What was before is no longer my reality and coming to terms with that, finding ways to make it easier, make it make more sense. motherhood's all consuming, right? but there are things that you can do if you let yourself.
to make it easier on you, to put you in a position where you can fill your cup, like taking a trip, right? There's the alternative to that is just, being so guilt ridden, like mom guilt, right? I'm using air quotes. I don't subscribe to having mom guilt. I don't give myself mom guilt, I guess is what I want to say, because I know a lot of that's like very much self inflicted and, Allowing yourself to go take a trip, go take a walk, go do something by yourself, for yourself, because ultimately, like you said, that's going to fill your cup and going to make you a better mom, a better spouse, a better person, a better friend, like whatever.
but that grieving period of holy shit, like my life is different now. there's no way around it. Like it's, Just different.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah, no, it is. And it's about knowing that, everything in parenthood, right? Ultimately passes, right? Phase or the not sleeping phase or the whatever, or the tantrum phase or the, you know, I mean, it all passes.
And so does the, like, lack of independence phase. but I do think that, like, Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of people who don't create as much opportunity for independence and freedom is like, I mean, because of the nature of my of who I am of being, like, if I don't have alone time, I will lose my mind.
So it's very much like I have to be healthy here, like mentally. and so I have to create those spaces for my mental health. know, my mom, which is funny. So my mother worked all the time when I was around 6 years old. I guess 6 7, she took this job that became a 80 hour a week job.
She was the legal secretary to the partner of a corporate litigation firm. And I mean, he probably worked like 100 hours a week and she did too. So, it was typical. Like my mom did not put me to sleep at night. My mom would come home at 1 o'clock in the morning and she would work weekends. I would go with her to the office on Saturdays We would literally like she would go in a little later.
We would do something on Saturday morning. I would get McDonald's and then we would drive to her office and I would hang out in the office and she would like work for four hours on Sundays. It was like typical for her to be in the office the whole day as though it was like a sixth work day. My grandmother watched me.
So I grew up with a mother who, like, very rarely could make the school play or like, I mean, not that she didn't, but there were a lot of things that she was not available to do, because she had a really abusive boss. That would basically be like, you need to stay, you know, it was really bad. So I definitely felt like I feel very motivated to be a parent who shows up, but my mother never had fun.
My mother only worked. And then every free moment she had, she parented. I come from, and my grandmother was in the fifties, right? Like she was a stay at home wife. All she did was parent. they both are like very confused when I like go to a hotel or like go on a vacation, but they're like, you're not allowed to do that.
you're only supposed to work and mother, like the idea that fun should be like you said, like, what do you do for fun? Right? that idea of having fun to them isit's like an act of irresponsibility. And I'm like, no, because like, I need to be a happy mother, and I also need to be a happy worker.
I'm working my ass off just to pay bills. Like, I'm sorry. Like I work a lot, like a lot, lot, until three o'clock in the morning and I'm not doing that just so like food is on the table. I'm doing that. So food is on the table and I can also go get my nails done.
I'm doing that. So there's food on the table and my kids have shoes and also I can get a massage or go or whatever. I mean, those are the things I like. I don't drink and I do like to go dancing every once in a while, but it's harder to do than getting your nails done, honestly. So like booking in fun, I think is just so critical as moms and especially because like, I mean, men were always allowed to have fun, right?
I mean, mad men days, and even like my grandfather had freaking fun. he worked his ass off, but I promise you, he went and had fun. Men have always been allowed to have recreation. That's why sports are so huge, right? That's why that's where all that money is because men were allowed to have work in recreation.
And women are allowed to have. Parenting and then they added work, but they were never really allowed recreation. unless it's working out. So we stay slim and pretty, right? Like one thing we're allowed to do go to the gym. That's the thing you're allowed. Like, I go to the gym, my parents are fine with that.
Go to the gym, spend your time at the gym. And I'm like, no, I fucking hate the gym. why would I go there? So yeah, no, I mean, I think that's like a huge piece of like, if all it is is like running a business and parenting, it's going to start to feel like, what is this life for, you know? And I don't believe in mommy martyrdom at all.
that version of being a parent is like, that's not going to make me a good parent. It's just going to make me resentful at the children that I'm raising, that I'm just, that my life is an act of sacrifice. I should be an act of joy. and fun. I mean, like my husband and I were very different in a lot of ways, the 1 we agree on is fun.
And we're really good at having fun together. We love fun. and we have a really fun household. it's a lot of fun here, you know, a friend of mine was staying here and we'll go on for too long, but a friend was staying here about a month ago. And, One of Terry's friends had come to like DJ at the pizza shop and then like she was spending the night and then he spent the night and then we ended up getting a record player that night and like literally we had like he was DJing.
We end up having, like, a dance party for, like, 2 hours in our living room on, like, a Sunday night. The kids went to bed at, like, 1030 on a Sunday night. Andit's not that that's every day here, but that's also, like, completely allowed. And actually, I would rather them, remember that as their childhood.
that's the home I want them to grow up in, fun is a priority, and, is really honored.
Kate Christy: Yeah. And touching on that, you're talking about what you observed your mom doing, right? Yeah. And then we can really often forget that all these little eyeballs are watching us all the time and picking up on, you know, they're tracking our habits or tracking what we're doing and what we're prioritizing and all that stuff.
And my son the other day asked me, he's like, what do you do for fun, mom? Like, what are your hobbies? And I was like, I don't have any. It's like, why not? That's weird. And I said, sure is, isn't it right? Right. And, told me that I should play video games. But as of yesterday, I bought him a book on how to code his own video games.
Yeah. I'm like, this is brilliant. I get to code stuff with him. He gets to make video games. Like, everyone's happy. Everyone's in their wheelhouse. This is Brilliant. so far we've only been able to make a turtle rotate in a square, but you know, we've got to start somewhere.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah. I mean, I'd say rotating turtles is a great start.
Yeah.
Kate Christy: And like having a dance party in the living room, I tell myself, I don't know if this is good parenting advice or bad parenting advice, but I think if I can create enough core memories for my kids. I'm going to check that as a win, right? a lot of times it is going to be mundane.
A lot of times it is going to be, these are things that you have to do because you're in school, you have these assignments, you have this to do, or these are those sports that you have to go play, or this is, the work that I have to do. These are the boring parts of life that we have to do, right?
But if we can just like, Sprinkle a little bit of those out of the ordinary things. Like that's the stuff that my kids will talk about too. Like, Hey, remember that time that, you know, we went to the trampoline park and you like lit us up in the dodge ball arena. I'm like, sure do.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah. Right. Just like those.
Yeah, yeah. It's like just having that again, you know, we've been a family who's been under like enormous stress. So I know what the little eyeballs are watching that too. And obviously stress leads to fighting. I mean, we had a horrible fight like a week ago where like my family was like, Now five year old, but at that point, four year old, was like, is daddy going to leave?
You know, when you're like, Oh God, you know? and I can't even say no, because we might not make it and it's sad, but like, that's the reality of marriage. And, all we could say is like, not today, you know? and also know that, whatever is to come that we also get to navigate that differently.
And, like, you know, it's tough because, like, a fight is a fight, and I think that's the 1 thing, like, in marriages, like, we're both also, my husband's Greek. I'm very Italian. we are fighters. Like, some people don't fight. we yell, we fight, we slam doors. we're fighting.
We're kind of that personality type and it's hard for us to like, hold that in even with children around. I know those are core memories too, right? know, and I always just try to tell them though, like, but we also come back together and we heal and we have fun and like, you know, an hour and a half later.
Later, like we can be laughing together and but that's just like mom and dad are under a lot of stress. the only way for us to get it out right now is like at each other because it is actually our safe space, and we know, like, and so I'm trying to lead them through that of like, it's okay for people to fight, like, it's okay for people to yell and like, yes, mommy and daddy might get it, take it too far.
I don't know. That's okay for people to slam doors, but they do, but it happens, right? Like, kids slam doors too. Everybody slams doors. Sometimes everybody just gets angry And that's okay to be angry and then also to bring it down to be able to sit down, which we did, like, we all sat down in the living room when we talked about, like, mommy and daddy working, trying to work through it.
But also, sometimes there are different variations of families and, and we know, We are very much a conscious uncoupling type of people. but like I said, like daddy would always have a key to this, to our home. Like my husband would come in and out of this house as though he still lived here.
Like that is how we would navigate. And we are people who would never date another person that would not be accepting of the core relationship. Which is that we are not only parents to our children, we are best friends and we will always be best friends. We might just not be suitable as husband and wife, but like, that's not going to like, we are determined and we have said this to each other, like we will not let our friendship change.
we would rather stay single for the rest of our lives and continue to be best friends and honor that in the space of the biggest relationship we have, which is that we share children. No one will ever come near that. No one will ever touch the sacred space that we created when we created those two beings that is something that like we actively hold and like we will navigate that together as a family.
ultimately those core memories will always contain joy and laughter and fun with both parents present in them. oh, there will always be dance parties in the living room, whether with both of us in attendance, you and if we have partners, they will be in attendance too.
Like Terry and I know, like we will always vacation together. Like we just might not stay in the same cabin anymore, but like, we will always vacation together and. it's a hard space to be in, and I've done a lot of like reading and it's always like, don't talk too much to your kids about it.
And I'm like, why? Because like, if we one day show up and we're like, daddy's leaving, they'd be like, why? Like you guys were just dancing and laughing together last night. Like, what the fuck are you people doing? Yes,
Kate Christy: a hundred percent. Okay. So, I have these same exact feelings that you do about, what's the right or wrong way to parent children or like what you let them in on, right?
Because I came from a family where my parents got divorced and my brother and I were exactly like, Come again? What's that? Like, why? How? Like, we don't understand. Okay. Because we never saw our parents fight. We never, but the opposite of that, we never saw them hug, kiss, dance together, anything like that.
They just kind of coexisted together, but it was this, you know, had this concept of like, oh, people who get divorced, like, And I've never seen that. So this doesn't make sense to me. And it ends it happily, right? We all vacation together. Everyone's still a big, happy family. And my brother, his wife, her parents are divorced.
They all come to Thanksgiving. My parents all come to Thanksgiving. My dad's wife, like everyone's just big, happy family. we. Kind of gained a whole bunch of people and, in that scenario. So that's positive. But you think about, well, you shouldn't yell in front of your kids. You shouldn't be this, emotional in front of your kids and all this stuff.
And I'm like, why? I grew up thinking grownups had it all together. Grownups kept their cool. They didn't make mistakes, like all this stuff. But it was like, no, this is just all happening behind the scenes. And now I feel like I'm doing something wrong when I am screaming or I am slamming a door but I think giving your kids.
That gift almost, right, of this is how a human acts, this is how a human feels, this is what happens. There's highs and lows, and sometimes we're screaming, sometimes we're laughing, sometimes we're not doing anything. And I don't know. 'cause I've had conversations with my parents about, you know, because conflicting ideals around what you're supposed to expose your children to and what you're not.
Kind of like, I think we're supposed to expose them to a little bit more than I was.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah. And I think there's like healthy exposure, right? like our daughter is allergic to dogs. And when she was born, like we have a dog who is the heart of our household. Peter was not going anywhere. like Ella might've had to leave.
Honestly, like, no. No, so we literally did like exposure therapy. It wasn't like under any doctor. I mean, she was, you know, it wasn't like she was going to die around the dog. It was just that she does have allergies and I'm sure it exacerbated it. And a lot of people were like, you shouldn't have the dog in the house.
And I was like, no, the dog lives in the house. Like the dog is a core part of this family and actually not allergic to dogs anymore. so I think there's something to be said about like, again, I can't say we're doing it in balance right now because, and I've explained to them too, this is not a normal period of life.
Like mom and dad are under abnormal amounts stress. This is not like typical stress. This is like extreme stress. we're going to be acting in ways that aren't always the best. And like, I've shared that with them. So they know that like, this isn't always appropriate behavior. It's just that we're going through stuff that like, we shouldn't have to be going through.
I mean, whatever we made the choices that got us here. So I'm not like absconding personal responsibility, but We are under like really like rough stuff every day and so naturally that's going to like we're human though and that's what I explain, we're working to get ourselves in a place where it's not as stressful.
we won't fight as much in that doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to stay together, but it won't feel as like. Is intense as it might feel right now. And so I don't know. I just believe in like having and I also tell them like it has nothing to do with you. And I actually feel like, I don't know what's going on in their little psyches.
They could be holding it a bit, but I do feel that At the end of the day, I do feel it's about like measured exposure to understand that life can be hard and people don't always respond in the best ways and they can still be good people and they can still heal and we can still try to balance all the plates as well as we can.
And sometimes a plate crashes on the floor and it's loud and scary, and then we just clean up the pieces and we go back to doing the best we can. And I think that is the difference. It's like, in sort of wrapping it up, because now I'm actually going to go volunteer at Ella school for the book fair today.
So, because I am truly momming and doing it all. but I do think that is the piece of like, running your own business. And like I said, I do find that's the difference between being in like a 9 to 5 job where again, it can be very stressful, but the stresses are more known. and your responsibility is, unless you're literally the CEO of a company, like the responsibility is always easy to defer to a certain extent.
where when it's your company, you hold all of that, you're responsible for all of it. and children are still children, right? Like They're going to like slip and fall and hurt themselves, or they're not going to brush their teeth when they're supposed to, or they're going to take 10 minutes to get into their pajamas, or they're going to, you know, and like, and it's easy to be like, what are you doing?
You know, and that's my, like, most famous line. Like, what are you doing? Oh, my God. and so it is like just, constantly having to be like, okay, I can get upset and I can redirect, you mommy's not mad. She's just frustrated in this moment. we can all heal that and we can go back to, like, a safe space of laughter and cuddling and, like, being close as a family and managing all of those plates the air as well as you can and know that some are going to break.
Because that is life and that is parenting and that is definitely owning a business.
Kate Christy: 100%.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah.
Kate Christy: You tied that up with a beautiful bow, Kristen.
Kristen McGuiness: I write books.
Kate Christy: okay. I have one quick question for you before we depart. how do you manage creativity in all of this that's going on? Because Writing and finding that time, finding that energy, finding that creativity with kids and work and life and messy stuff.
what does that look like for you?
Kristen McGuiness: I mean, it's not easy. I mean, that is where I the idea of going away, though, to a hotel and I say this, I mean, I'm a book coach and I wrote, you know, I had a novel come out in October live through this that I wrote when Ella was 1 years old.
At the time, though, I was just in the day job and I didn't have a 2nd job. So, like, I had a very, simple schedule. I look back at that time. I'm like, oh, so, so sweet. Simple schedule. Like, I got home at 6 PM. I made Terry was Ubering and I, like, make dinner. I would get her ready for bed. I would have, like, half a cup of coffee while I bathed her.
I would put her down by 8. And I would go write for an hour and a half to two hours every night and I was a very like and then good night and then get up and do it again. And that was like groundhog day. but I was determined to write this book. over the years it was harder as I was rewriting it because my schedule did get harder.
I didn't have a second child. I didn't have that simplicity, you know? And so what I realized, like, There's versions of creativity that can feel very habitual, but sometimes there's no space for that habit. my life is too chaotic right now. There's no way I could be like, and then I wrote for an hour every day.
I mean, that would be nice. And I hope to get back to there, but that's just not where we're at. So instead, what I've had to do is like, create pockets where I can create them, which is why, like, Go away to a hotel and I will do some creative writing there. like I do go to New York and I try to do some creative writing there or, you know, wherever I am or I'm able to.
I mean, I coach people all the time in this of like, you know, for some people that hour a day or whatever it might be is really they can do that for other people. Maybe it's just like two hours on Saturday for other people. It might even be more scattered than that. It's really about
Finding the space in the schedule, whatever that looks like for you, and then just committing to what that little box looks like, you know, and usually if you can create, even if it's like a box once a month, it's like anything, right? Then maybe after a few months, you could start doing it once a week, then after a few months, maybe you start doing it 3 times a week, right?
Then you just kind of, you know, you start to strengthen that creativity muscle ultimately you begin to find more space in the schedule for it. but yeah, I've definitely my pendulum has swung all over the place. And then there are times where there's just no space whatsoever for it. And I just know it's, it's okay right now.
and right now I am in that space. Like, I really want to start writing again. And in 2024, like, I'm very committed to finding that space. I'm taking 3 weeks off in December to actually begin to create that space. And I have a friend who offered me a place to stay for a couple of days here in Ohio, just to get like, a little retreat and I'm going to really like, okay, what do I want to work on?
what do I want to really start writing? and then how do I really create the space for that every month? So that I can make this a part of my life again. but yeah, it definitely takes commitment. So,
Kate Christy: I think something that I struggle with as a creative is scheduling creative time.
I'm like, there's no way, I don't know how I'm going to feel. My dad still jokes that when I was a little kid, he was like, set up your clothes for tomorrow. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to wear because I don't know how I'm going to feel tomorrow, dad. And so he still says that to me, but, it's so true though, about flexing that creative muscle.
Like I was saying that in my head, right. As you said that we're setting aside that time and the practice and making it a habit that, you know, you'll look back and be like, Holy shit. I just did this thing that I thought I would never get done because of everything that's going on, all the plates in the air.
Right. And then just like chipping away at it. But.
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah, it is. No, it is. I mean, I always say it's about like, I think it's about really creating firm, but gentle timelines for yourself that create some sense of accountability without also though creating the, like, I'm going to do this by X date and then it doesn't get done and you give up.
Right. So just knowing that, like, sometimes it doesn't get done that we thought of it. And sometimes it doesn't happen the way we think it's going to happen. That's okay. That doesn't mean we have to give up on it. But, We just have to like retool it for, you know, again, it's like picking your daughter up.
Right.It's like, okay, so maybe we just have to shift the process so that we can get the best of both. I'm a firm believer. I remember when I was like, and I do have to go, but I remember back, I'm now sober a long time. And I remember when I was drinking and using, I had a friend who was like, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
And I was like, why not? How does that mean? I'm just supposed to look at the cake. It's going to go bad. I should have my cake and eat it too. Like that's ridiculous. And I do believe that. I think there's always a way to have your cake and eat it too. You just have to create a system that allows for that.
Right. And it takes trial and error tries to get it this way. It takes sometimes maybe you just have the cake. Sometimes you just eat it too, but there is a way to actually build a life that allows you to do both.
Kate Christy: Yeah. One of my sayings is A no doesn't mean no, it might mean not now. It might mean not this way.
It might mean just a little bit different than you had imagined. And making that shift as a parent, I'm like, okay, this is a lot easier stomach. Kristen, thank you so much for having this super honest, real conversation with me. I loved every second of it. Will you tell everyone where they can find you online, how they can connect with you, how they can work with you, all those things?
Kristen McGuiness: Yeah. So, we do all of our book coaching through risewriters. com. We offer private coaching. We have group classes. We actually have a group class coming up in January called five weeks to book proposal, which I have sort of considered calling five weeks to find your story, but I don't know yet. But really, the idea is, if you have an idea for a book, you want to get started on it.
You want to figure out what it means. What's the promise? What's the approach? how it's going to look. it's a five week course to figure all that out. there's a group coaching program and then we also have an add on for private sessions with me. which is really exciting because I actually don't offer private coaching anymore.
And then we have amazing coaches at Rise Writers who help people to coach them through the book proposal or an entire manuscript. Script process. so you can go to rise writers.com or find us on Instagram at Rise Writers. and you can find me personally at Kristen McGinnis. So, and if you're interested in Rise Books or Ascend Publishing, thanks to Kate Christie here.
You can go to either of our websites@risewriters.com or rise books.com. They're both linked and beautifully designed. I really, what am I? So much for all of the gorgeous work you've done on our sites. They just,
Kate Christy: one of my favorite projects to date.
Kristen McGuiness: Oh, I love it. I love them so much. I always, every time I open them, I'm like, Oh, you're so pretty.
Kate Christy: Oh, well, I will link everything in the show notes. And, thank you so much, Kristen, for giving us your time today.
Kristen McGuiness: Thanks for having me here. Okay.
Kate Christy: Bye.
Kristen McGuiness: Bye.